<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: House passes health care reform</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/</link>
	<description>Blogging Liberally in the Badger State</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:08:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Locke</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15831</link>
		<dc:creator>Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15831</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Clearly the battle for meaningful health care reform isn’t over, but yesterday’s vote in the House was a big step in the right direction.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The battle for meaningful health care reform NEVER BEGAN. And I&#039;m guessing it won&#039;t begin until the Democrats plan is put into practice and fails miserably like it inevitably will.

Washington is incapable of solving this problem and is only going to make it worse, exploding the deficit along the way. All this bickering is going on while unemployment hits double digits (despite a &quot;stimulus&quot; packaged that will add almost $800 billion to the budget deficit).  

We&#039;ve had partisan hackery all over the place, rhetoric and dogma, incredibly biased &quot;studies&quot; and data and absolutely no real honest debate and discussion about the problems and how to best fix them. Well at least by the politicians.

At this point, I really don&#039;t care. The Democrats have the votes to do whatever they want. They have no interest in debate, or bipartisan support - and they don&#039;t need it, so just get it over with already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Clearly the battle for meaningful health care reform isn’t over, but yesterday’s vote in the House was a big step in the right direction.</p></blockquote>
<p>The battle for meaningful health care reform NEVER BEGAN. And I&#8217;m guessing it won&#8217;t begin until the Democrats plan is put into practice and fails miserably like it inevitably will.</p>
<p>Washington is incapable of solving this problem and is only going to make it worse, exploding the deficit along the way. All this bickering is going on while unemployment hits double digits (despite a &#8220;stimulus&#8221; packaged that will add almost $800 billion to the budget deficit).  </p>
<p>We&#8217;ve had partisan hackery all over the place, rhetoric and dogma, incredibly biased &#8220;studies&#8221; and data and absolutely no real honest debate and discussion about the problems and how to best fix them. Well at least by the politicians.</p>
<p>At this point, I really don&#8217;t care. The Democrats have the votes to do whatever they want. They have no interest in debate, or bipartisan support &#8211; and they don&#8217;t need it, so just get it over with already.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15831)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15831">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15830</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15830</guid>
		<description>I applaud your willingness to actually discuss the issues instead of dismissing them out of hand.  Major points.

Here&#039;s the thing.  Hospitals are required to provide essential services to anybody who walks in the door regardless of their ability to pay.  For those without insurance, the hospital emergency room becomes the only option, even for non-emergency conditions.  ER visits also happen to be (next to ICU), the most expensive type of provided health care.  When the patient can&#039;t pay, guess who does?  We all do, indirectly.  On the other hand, a person with health insurance has access to the family or general practitioner outside the hospital where costs are far lower.  (Which also improves the chance of preventative medicine, but that&#039;s another thread.)  When all eligible citizens participate in some kind of managed health plan (private or public) then the cost of treating the uninsured (theoretically) disappears.  We all win in that scenario.  And that&#039;s just one example.

The republicans don&#039;t have a problem with mandatory participation.  But they want to keep it entirely private within the health insurance companies.  And that&#039;s a non-starter, since there would never be any assurance that it would ever be affordable.  There&#039;s no checks or balances in a monopoly or even a duopoly.

Make no mistake, health insurance companies will continue to thrive and make lots of profits for their shareholders AS LONG AS they are willing to find better and more efficient ways to provide their services.  But that will require big changes to business models for these behemoth companies.  The steadfast refusal of these companies to even contemplate such change has angered me more than anything in this whole debate.  Instead of coming to the table with workable alternatives, these utterly lazy companies have simply thrown tens of millions of dollars (yes that&#039;s our money, too) at our legislators (who were elected to SERVE THE PEOPLE) to preserve the failed status quo. It has been the actions (or lack therein) of these health insurance companies that have brought us to the point where we are now.

What a public option does (and I&#039;m no big fan of single payer, which btw should not be confused with public option) is open the playing field of competitiveness.  Insurance companies will have decisions to make.  Do they go after the population that opts for the public option?  Do they innovate to stay ahead of the trends?  Those that do adapt will continue to provide returns to their investors.

This country rose to greatness through innovation and adaptation, not by adhering to the status quo.  I guess I&#039;ll leave it there for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud your willingness to actually discuss the issues instead of dismissing them out of hand.  Major points.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing.  Hospitals are required to provide essential services to anybody who walks in the door regardless of their ability to pay.  For those without insurance, the hospital emergency room becomes the only option, even for non-emergency conditions.  ER visits also happen to be (next to ICU), the most expensive type of provided health care.  When the patient can&#8217;t pay, guess who does?  We all do, indirectly.  On the other hand, a person with health insurance has access to the family or general practitioner outside the hospital where costs are far lower.  (Which also improves the chance of preventative medicine, but that&#8217;s another thread.)  When all eligible citizens participate in some kind of managed health plan (private or public) then the cost of treating the uninsured (theoretically) disappears.  We all win in that scenario.  And that&#8217;s just one example.</p>
<p>The republicans don&#8217;t have a problem with mandatory participation.  But they want to keep it entirely private within the health insurance companies.  And that&#8217;s a non-starter, since there would never be any assurance that it would ever be affordable.  There&#8217;s no checks or balances in a monopoly or even a duopoly.</p>
<p>Make no mistake, health insurance companies will continue to thrive and make lots of profits for their shareholders AS LONG AS they are willing to find better and more efficient ways to provide their services.  But that will require big changes to business models for these behemoth companies.  The steadfast refusal of these companies to even contemplate such change has angered me more than anything in this whole debate.  Instead of coming to the table with workable alternatives, these utterly lazy companies have simply thrown tens of millions of dollars (yes that&#8217;s our money, too) at our legislators (who were elected to SERVE THE PEOPLE) to preserve the failed status quo. It has been the actions (or lack therein) of these health insurance companies that have brought us to the point where we are now.</p>
<p>What a public option does (and I&#8217;m no big fan of single payer, which btw should not be confused with public option) is open the playing field of competitiveness.  Insurance companies will have decisions to make.  Do they go after the population that opts for the public option?  Do they innovate to stay ahead of the trends?  Those that do adapt will continue to provide returns to their investors.</p>
<p>This country rose to greatness through innovation and adaptation, not by adhering to the status quo.  I guess I&#8217;ll leave it there for now.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15830)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15830">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15829</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15829</guid>
		<description>One of the best explanations yet. left or right. I have some issues nontheless.
-can&#039;t get over the whole forced puchace thing, feels unconstitutional..
-a single &quot;purchase card&quot; eliminates competition, killing innovation.
-what happens when an older model car pulls in for gas? today, if one card wont cover the bill, another may.
-this bill not only promises gas, but all fluids, new wipers, and preventive tune ups. in order to pay for all this, many presently offered survices would have to be cut, more road taxes/fees would have to be raised/created.
-I would not be congtroling the card, the card would be controling me.
-...and does anyone remember the lines at the gas stations in the carter years? I think they would be considered short compared to what this all controling visa card would create. How many cars will have to &quot;run out of gas&quot; waiting in line before the outry started? I&#039;d rather no wait, I&#039;ll start the outcry now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the best explanations yet. left or right. I have some issues nontheless.<br />
-can&#8217;t get over the whole forced puchace thing, feels unconstitutional..<br />
-a single &#8220;purchase card&#8221; eliminates competition, killing innovation.<br />
-what happens when an older model car pulls in for gas? today, if one card wont cover the bill, another may.<br />
-this bill not only promises gas, but all fluids, new wipers, and preventive tune ups. in order to pay for all this, many presently offered survices would have to be cut, more road taxes/fees would have to be raised/created.<br />
-I would not be congtroling the card, the card would be controling me.<br />
-&#8230;and does anyone remember the lines at the gas stations in the carter years? I think they would be considered short compared to what this all controling visa card would create. How many cars will have to &#8220;run out of gas&#8221; waiting in line before the outry started? I&#8217;d rather no wait, I&#8217;ll start the outcry now.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15829)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15829">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PartiallyBlue</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15828</link>
		<dc:creator>PartiallyBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15828</guid>
		<description>Alexander, nothing changes just because everyone is forced to buy health insurance. &quot;The system&quot; is not changing. The Kennedy Plan forces everyone to buy insurance unless you cannot afford it. And when you cannot afford it, the government issues you a government insurance plan. 
No changes to hospitals, doctors,or treatments. True, the government plan will come with a limited number of possible treatments but if you work for a company that pays your health insurance, nothing changes.
What does change? Wellness availability and a health insurance exchange is created so you can shop and compare plans.
What else changes? Insurance plans must have specific components in them. No more &#039;pre-existing condition&#039; excuses for insurance companies. Nationwide record retention and medical information sharing is a by-product.
There is a hope that costs will go down as a result but this is pie-in-the-sky thinking. Nobody knows what will happen except that the fraud doctors who bill the government twice for every ailment and take three tests when only one is needed will have to deal with insurance companies now.
This healthcare plan is like saying you can fill your tank with any gas you want from any service station you want but you can only use Visa. MasterCard, American Express, and cash are no longer accepted.Visa will only pay for your gas if your gas gauge says 1/4 full and you get the right amount of gasoline at the right octane level for the car you own. And, oh by the way, if you don&#039;t have a Visa card, you will be assessed a special tax. When everyone uses Visa, the administrative costs of Visa will go down which will result in lower pump prices for gasoline. The gas station will be reimbursed 100% for all the gas you take regardless whether it is a gallon, a barrel, or a supertanker fill-up as long as they charge you a reasonable fee.
That is the plan. Everything else you read and hear about is malarkey IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander, nothing changes just because everyone is forced to buy health insurance. &#8220;The system&#8221; is not changing. The Kennedy Plan forces everyone to buy insurance unless you cannot afford it. And when you cannot afford it, the government issues you a government insurance plan.<br />
No changes to hospitals, doctors,or treatments. True, the government plan will come with a limited number of possible treatments but if you work for a company that pays your health insurance, nothing changes.<br />
What does change? Wellness availability and a health insurance exchange is created so you can shop and compare plans.<br />
What else changes? Insurance plans must have specific components in them. No more &#8216;pre-existing condition&#8217; excuses for insurance companies. Nationwide record retention and medical information sharing is a by-product.<br />
There is a hope that costs will go down as a result but this is pie-in-the-sky thinking. Nobody knows what will happen except that the fraud doctors who bill the government twice for every ailment and take three tests when only one is needed will have to deal with insurance companies now.<br />
This healthcare plan is like saying you can fill your tank with any gas you want from any service station you want but you can only use Visa. MasterCard, American Express, and cash are no longer accepted.Visa will only pay for your gas if your gas gauge says 1/4 full and you get the right amount of gasoline at the right octane level for the car you own. And, oh by the way, if you don&#8217;t have a Visa card, you will be assessed a special tax. When everyone uses Visa, the administrative costs of Visa will go down which will result in lower pump prices for gasoline. The gas station will be reimbursed 100% for all the gas you take regardless whether it is a gallon, a barrel, or a supertanker fill-up as long as they charge you a reasonable fee.<br />
That is the plan. Everything else you read and hear about is malarkey IMO.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15828)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15828">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15826</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15826</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see rationing in a system set for profit being worse than rationing in a system set up to pay for everybody.  In order for for a system to be able to pay for everybodies care thet are going to have to cut &quot;high end care&quot;, &quot;unessasary&quot; (as in end of life, nonlife essential, theripies, ect). 
I say todays &quot;messed up&quot; system beats gov. care hands down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see rationing in a system set for profit being worse than rationing in a system set up to pay for everybody.  In order for for a system to be able to pay for everybodies care thet are going to have to cut &#8220;high end care&#8221;, &#8220;unessasary&#8221; (as in end of life, nonlife essential, theripies, ect).<br />
I say todays &#8220;messed up&#8221; system beats gov. care hands down.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15826)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15826">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zach W</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15825</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15825</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s all try to stay on topic; there&#039;s no need for namecalling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s all try to stay on topic; there&#8217;s no need for namecalling.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15825)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15825">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zach W</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15824</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15824</guid>
		<description>Alexander, rationing is already out of hand.  Insurance companies are already finding ways to avoid covering folks who have insurance simply so they can pad their bottom lines.  I&#039;ve got some personal experience with rationing, and it&#039;s not pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander, rationing is already out of hand.  Insurance companies are already finding ways to avoid covering folks who have insurance simply so they can pad their bottom lines.  I&#8217;ve got some personal experience with rationing, and it&#8217;s not pretty.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15824)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15824">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15823</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15823</guid>
		<description>Technicaly you would be right, I guess it comes down to just how bad one wants that &quot;rationing&quot; to get. I believe that under a gov. run system rationing can&#039;t help but get out of hand. Murderous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technicaly you would be right, I guess it comes down to just how bad one wants that &#8220;rationing&#8221; to get. I believe that under a gov. run system rationing can&#8217;t help but get out of hand. Murderous
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15823)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15823">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zach W</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15822</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15822</guid>
		<description>Alexander, you seem to be under the impression we don&#039;t already have rationed care, and I hate to break to you, but our current health care system is all about rationed care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander, you seem to be under the impression we don&#8217;t already have rationed care, and I hate to break to you, but our current health care system is all about rationed care.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15822)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15822">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://bloggingblue.com/2009/11/08/house-passes-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15821</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloggingblue.com/?p=6923#comment-15821</guid>
		<description>(sigh...) Okay, &quot;marxist&quot; qualifies as &quot;name calling&quot;, sorry zach, I&#039;ll leave that for my posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sigh&#8230;) Okay, &#8220;marxist&#8221; qualifies as &#8220;name calling&#8221;, sorry zach, I&#8217;ll leave that for my posts.
<p class="comment-like"><img class="comment-like-btn" title="Vote" onclick="cl_like_this('http://bloggingblue.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php',15821)" src="http://bloggingblue.com/wp-content/plugins/comments-likes/images/like.png" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span id="comment-like-cnt-15821">0</span> likes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

