A recap of the Plale/Larson debate

Having had a day to fully digest Tuesday night’s debate between State Sen. Jeff Plale and Milwaukee County Supervisor Chris Larson, who happens to be challenging Sen. Plale for the right to be the Democratic Party’s nominee for the seat in the 7th Senate District, one thing is abundantly clear: there was no clear winner. Both Plale and Larson were effective in stating their positions on the issues discussed at the debate, with each candidate at times effectively attacking the other.

After some brief introductory remarks by the moderator (Bruce Murphy of Milwaukee Magazine) and each candidate, Murphy delved right into the issues:

ON EDUCATION:

Sen. Plale started his remarks on education by noting that both of his sons attend public school, as did he (perhaps a dig at Larson for attending Thomas More?) Plale noted he got into politics because of education, having seen how frugal school districts like St. Francis, South Milwaukee, and Cudahy were being penalized for being frugal. Plale added that he believes getting rid of revenue caps will be a boon for those school districts who need funding the most, and he noted that he believes investing in education is an investment in economic development.

Larson started out his comments by noting his commitment to education, adding that his wife is currently working to obtain her PhD. in education. Larson noted battle #1 is fixing the funding flaw that results in MPS losing $50 million per year to districts in other parts of the state, adding, “the rest of the state is getting the butter off our bread.”

HOW TO FIX MPS:

Both candidates agreed they could spend hours discussing just the Milwaukee Public School system and how to fix what ails MPS.

Speaking first, Larson noted MPS needs to lower teacher to student ratios, in addition to fixing the funding flaw he mentioned in the previous question. Larson was also adamant that more stakeholders – especially parents – need to get involved in the process, noting that in the most recent MPS school board election, turnout was only 8 percent.

Sen. Plale started his comments by noting he supports the proposal by DPI Superintendent Tony Evers to more equitably fund school districts throughout the state, and Plale went on to note his support for the proposed mayoral takeover of MPS to increase accountability.

SCHOOL CHOICE:

Speaking first, Sen. Plale noted that the Supreme Court has ruled school choice is Constitutional, so the argument isn’t whether it should exist or not, but rather how accountable charter schools should be. Sen. Plale added he wants to ensure voucher schools are good schools, so the wheat can be separated from the chaff.

Larson noted voucher schools are a “horrible experiment gone wrong,” adding that voucher school students aren’t held to the same achievement standards as other students, while voucher school teachers aren’t required to have the same levels of education and training as other teachers. Larson added voucher schools haven’t lived up to their billing in improving the quality of education children are receiving, and instead they’ve become a magnet for out of state groups to pour thousands of dollars into the campaigns of politicians who will support voucher schools.

SHOULD THE RATIO OF SPENDING ON CORRECTIONS AND UW SYSTEM, WHICH IS CURRENTLY NEARLY EVEN, BE ALTERED?

Answering first, Larson noted he’d need to look into the issue a little more, but he quickly added that the state’s current sentencing practices are fiscally unsustainable. Larson pointed out that he fought efforts by Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker to cut after school programs, because he believes that we need to invest in preventative measures rather than spending money on the back end once individuals are in the criminal justice system.

Sen. Plale approached the issue from an economic standpoint, noting that if we’re going to come out of the current recession, we need to invest more in education. Plale cited his work in the State Senate on the new UWM Water Institute, as well as the new physics building at UWM, and he agreed with Larson’s point that we need to spend more on preventative measures rather than spending money on the back end on incarceration.

POSITION ON ABORTION:

Sen. Plale started his response by noting Wisconsin already has very restrictive abortion laws in place, and he added that he’s noticed the discussion in Madison has shifted into a discussion more centered on abortion prevention. Plale also noted he fought against “abstinence only” policies.

Larson noted he is strongly pro-choice, adding he believes his position on abortion is more in line with the district, given its makeup as 60 percent Democratic. Larson added his position on abortion is more reflective of the district than Sen. Plale’s position, saying, “I’m the pro-choice candidate.”

THE ECONOMY:

In talking about the economy, Larson started his remarks by noting that the Clean Energy Jobs Act (which Sen. Plale killed in the State Senate) would have been a boon to the economy in Wisconsin, adding that CEJA was actually supported by the utility companies. Larson shared that he was diagnosed with asthma at age five, adding that at the time he thought he was going to die, and he noted that if we can create good jobs and clean up the air it’s a win-win for everyone. Larson also added that if elected he’d work to implement a unified area to promote the area’s potential to become even more of a shipping and transportation hub for the state than it already is.

Responding to Larson’s claims about CEJA creating jobs, Sen. Plale noted the Clean Energy Jobs Act wasn’t the right way to create clean energy jobs, because while it would have created clean energy jobs, those jobs would have come at the expense of existing jobs. Sen. Plale added CEJA would have increased the energy rates for Bucyrus, a major employer in the district, by $2 million per month.

SHOULD STATE GOVERNMENT REIN IN BENEFITS FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES?

Asked about reining in benefits for public employees, Sen. Plale noted the next budget will be one of priorities, adding that education and infrastructure will be priorities. Plale did add that he would oppose unilateral reductions in wages and benefits for public employees, but adding that he would follow the lead of Governor Barrett on the issue.

Larson agreed that he’d follow the lead of Governor Barrett in regards to possible reductions in benefits and wages for public employees, adding that public employees shouldn’t be made to be scapegoats during the current economic times. Larson noted that public employees know they’re going to lose some benefits, citing the state pension system as an example of a system that isn’t financially sustainable.

NAME YOUR OPPONENT’S GREATEST STRENGTH AND BIGGEST WEAKNESS:

Asked to name his opponent’s greatest strength and biggest weakness, Larson was quick to note he thinks Sen. Plale is a “nice guy;” someone who’s quick with a joke and who has been supportive to Larson in the past. In regards to Sen. Plale’s biggest weakness, Larson noted he doesn’t believe Plale has been able to “stick to his guns” during his time in elected office.

When it was his turn to outline Larson’s strengths and weaknesses, Sen. Plale demurred, noting he didn’t want to say anything bad about his opponent. Plale did note he thinks Larson has done a good job at the County level, adding he hope Larson stays at the County level, which drew big laughs from the audience.

WHAT’S THE RIGHT APPROACH FOR THE STATE TO TAKE IN ADDRESSING TRANSIT IN MILWAUKEE COUNTY?

In addressing the transit issue in Milwaukee County, Sen. Plale started by noting he thinks it makes no sense not to implement the KRM commuter train extension from Kenosha to Milwaukee. Sen. Plale noted he first started working on the KRM back in 1996, and yet 14 years later the KRM hasn’t been able to come to fruition. Plale acknowledged that Milwaukee County’s transit system is failing, adding that the downward spiral of the transit system can be traced to Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker’s refusal to invest money into the county’s transit system. Plale closed by noting we already have a regional economy in southeastern Wisconsin, and therefore we need to take a regional approach to addressing the transit issue, so that each county involved “has some skin in the game.”

Larson started his remarks by noting that transit was a big issue when he ran for County Supervisor in 2008, and it’s still a big issue today. Larson added that Milwaukee is the last major metropolitan area not to have a dedicated funding source for transit, which puts the region at a disadvantage when it comes to attracting employers and employees. Larson cited his leadership in the effort to pass a referendum approving a dedicated sales tax for transit in Milwaukee County as an example of the leadership he’d provide in the State Senate, and he was quick to point out that while the effort was successful in Milwaukee County, it failed to gain approval at the state level.

TAXES – SHOULD THE STATE’S BALANCE OF REVENUE SOURCES BE ALTERED?

Both candidates agreed that the state needs to evaluate its sources of revenue.

Larson stated he supports making a shift away from the state’s reliance on property taxes as a revenue source, instead using the sales tax as an increased source of revenue. Larson noted that sales taxes are lower in Milwaukee than in places like Chicago, and he believes that property owners need property tax relief.

Sen. Plale started his remarks by noting how many people he’s talked to who’ve said they can’t wait to retire, sell their house, and move to states with much lower property taxes. Plale said he wants to work to eliminate the uniformity clause in the State Constitution, noting that its time has passed. Plale added he supports a shift towards taxation based on consumption rather than property taxes.

CAMPAIGN DONATIONS:

Addressing the issue of campaign donations, specifically the fact that Sen. Plale has received a majority of his campaign donations from individuals outside the district he represents, Plale said, “wouldn’t it be great if elected officials didn’t have to ask for money,” adding that he hates raising money. Plale was quick to note he’s raised money from good people, and he’s also raised money from special interests, but he was quick to add that he found it ironic that the groups attacking him for raising money from special interest groups are in fact special interest groups. Plale did make it clear that he believes there needs to be reform of the system.

In answering the question, Larson went on the offensive against Plale, stating he believes a candidate needs to have firm standards in regards to the campaign contributions he’s receiving. Larson pointed out over 80 percent of his campaign contributions have come from inside the district, a stark contrast to Sen. Plale’s contributions, and in acknowledging the involvement of outside groups in this race, Larson added that makes the case for publicly financed campaigns.

GIVEN THE DISTRICT MAKEUP, DOES A LARSON PRIMARY WIN MAKE IT EASIER FOR REPUBLICAN TO WIN IN GENERAL?

Larson’s response to this question was simple: NO. He added that the district needs a strong advocate for their beliefs as well as someone with a strong work ethic, and he doesn’t believe that the district would sway to Republican control if the progressive candidate wins the Democratic primary.

Plale drew laughs when he noted he was once told the district can best be described as “quiche to kiszka,” adding that it’s a very unique district. Plale noted he’s not a partisan bomb-thrower who poses for the “partisan holy pictures,” which is in keeping with a district in which the vast majority of voters are in the middle of the political spectrum.

HOW DO THEY FEEL ABOUT THE HOAN BRIDGE BEING REPLACED WITH A STREET-LEVEL PARKWAY?

Both candidates noted their opposition to anything short of redecking the Hoan Bridge in its current footprint.

Larson pointed out that the study used by the Department of Transportation to justify replacing the Hoan Bridge with a grade-level parkway was faulty, and he added that the south side got hoodwinked because the state doesn’t want to pay for the Hoan Bridge anymore.

Sen. Plale indicated he is adamantly opposed to taking down the Hoan Bridge, and he added that he and Rep. Chris Sinicki have talked about applying for Tiger II grants to start the redecking process on the Lake Interchange on the north end of the Hoan Bridge.

SHOULD THE STATE DO MORE IN REGARDS TO CONCEALED CARRY?

Sen. Plale noted he believes the state needs to be more proactive in addressing the issue of concealed carry, without actually stating his pro-CCW position, at least as far as I can tell.

In contrast, Larson made it clear he’s opposed to laws allowing concealed carry, adding “this isn’t the old west; why do people need to walk around carrying guns?” Larson’s comment about the old west drew chuckles from the audience.

IS CLIMATE CHANGE HUMAN-MADE?

In addressing the issue of man-made climate change, Larson said he agrees with the 99.9 percent of scientists who think global warming is real, adding that we need to move towards cleaner energy sources. Larson bolstered his argument by noting that when we invest in clean energy sources here in Wisconsin, that money stays in state, while “dirty energy” sends money out of the state. In justifying the move towards clean energy, Larson noted, “there’s no business to be done on a dead planet.”

Answering the question, Sen. Plale pointed out that during his time in the State Senate, reductions have been made in the state’s reliance on fossil fuels, citing manure digesters and wind farms as two examples of renewable energy sources he’s worked to see implemented. In discussing the much-discussed Clean Energy Jobs Act and his role in killing the bill, Plale noted he worked for two years on CEJA, and that for most of that time he was the “squeaky wheel” who wanted to talk about the cost of the bill while no one else wanted to talk about cost.

Following the formal questions from Bruce Murphy, the floor was opened to those in attendance to ask questions of the candidates. While I won’t address each of those questions, one question and the answers it received seemed notable to me. When asked if they support the implementation of statewide paid sick leave, especially for women who’ve been the victims of domestic violence, Sen. Plale indicated he believes it’s an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level to avoid a hodgepodge of different standards in different municipalities, but what was notable about his answer is that Sen. Plale never really answered the question on whether he supports paid sick leave.