On Monday, Vicki “wolf on back, snake on chest” McKenna accused Madison Firefighters of intimidating tea party members, booing during the national anthem, and even making a bomb threat, and McKenna then then went on to say that Madison police officers were allowing criminal behavior to take place because they supported pro-union demonstrators.

Yesterday from WTDY 1670AM’s “Sly in the Morning” show Sly invited Jim Palmer from the Wisconsin Professional Police association and Joe Conway from Firefighters local 311 in Madison to address McKenna’s outrageous claims. Here’s the audio of Sly’s segment with Palmer and Conway:

[audio:http://ia700608.us.archive.org/30/items/VickiMckennaAttacksMadisonFirefightersPolice/vickiattackslawenforcementff.mp3]
(Audio courtesy of Sly in the Morning)

I’ve already documented the hypocrisy of McKenna’s use of terms like “union thugs” given her own “thuggish” history, but accusing firefighters of engaging in intimidation and accusing cops of not doing the jobs they swore an oath to do crosses the line, as far as I’m concerned. Then again, considering McKenna’s physically and verbally abusive behavior towards law enforcement during her arrest, we shouldn’t be shocked that even today she isn’t above taking potshots at police officers to make herself feel a little better.

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45 Responses to AUDIO: Vicki McKenna accuses firefighters of intimidating tea party ralliers

  1. Notalib says:

    There is no reason for her to attack the firefighters, they are only doing what they are being told to do they have little choice.

    What is going on is the left have been unable to get a message out to the people that would generate support for them, so now they have decided that they will shout down free speech and and try to drown out the message that most people can relate to, less taxes, more individual responsibility, something unions are against.

    This will become a standard action by unions wherever people assembly to speak out for these issues, so instead of demonizing the rank and file, we must sympathize with these people who are controlled by leadership who dislike the free speech of those who disagree with their stand. Let them attend the rallies beating their drums, ringing their cowbells, blowing the whistles, people who respect peoples right to freedom of speech see the actions of the minority and are sadden by their lack of respect for the 1st Amendment.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      Little homey wrote, in pertinent part, “What is going on is the [sic] left have [sic] been unable to get a message out to the people that would generate support for them [sic]. . .”

      Uh huh. (*laughing*)

      “Stupid is as stupid [writes]“. . .

      5000 counter-protestors showed up at the rally sponsored by the Koch brothers-funded Americans For Prosperity organization, outnumbering the AFP rally attendees by 10 to 1, but THAT doesn’t stop Notalib from suggesting that the pro-union/anti-Walker message doesn’t resonate with “the people”.

      During the earlier and massive Madison protests against Snotty Scotty’s efforts to destroy the unions, hundreds of thousands of people shrugged off bitter cold day after day to attend, but Notalib, partisan blinders in place, singsonging, “La La La” and ignoring reality, says “the left have [sic] been unable to get a message out to the people that would generate support for them [sic].”

      Snotty Scotty’s poll numbers are in the tank, Prosser lost a 30 point lead over Kloppenburg in less than two months, as the direct and proximate result of Walker’s union-busting efforts, and Nota(“La La La, I can’s HEAR you”)lib maintains that the anti-Walker message JUST doesn’t resonate with “the people”.

      Then, in a move certain to cause everyone here intellectual whiplash, having coined and repeatedly used any number of over-the-top and completely unjustified insults for union members over time here, he NOW says that we must “sympathize”, and “not demonize” the union members who attended the pro-Walker AFP rally as counter-protesters because “. . .they are only doing what they are being told to do [sic] they [sic] have no choice.”

      All I can say is “classic Notalib”. Just make up things as he go along, whatever it takes in order to allow him to cling to his irrational partisan bias, to “save face”, and to protect his fragile ego/hide his massive inferiority complex.

      Well, little homey, your newfound empathy for union members notwithstanding, I’m sure that the union members who counter-protested at the pro-Walker AFP rally vigorously and passionately agree with your self-serving characterization of why they were there.

      The counter-protesters were passionate and noisy. Noise is the inevitable byproduct of passionate political disagreement in a LARGE crowd. It isn’t a “technique” or a “standard action”, as you put it. It is an expression of the very support for unions in Wisconsin that you refuse, for strictly partisan reasons, as well as for reasons related to your Intelligence Quotient (that’s IQ for the simpletons like Notalib among us), to see and/or acknowledge, just as it was with respect to the earlier and original Madison protests.

      But, prattle on, my misguided and intellectually challenged wingnut brother. Beyond making you look like an idiot as [Redacted] noted/”advised”, acting and arguing as you do, not to mention writing like a third grader, only serves to alienate people, as well as to convince them that your opponents have the better argument.

      “Stupid is as stupid [writes]“. . .

  2. Mike says:

    It’s funny that the right’s message is less taxes when Governor Walker’s budget will cause property taxes to rise at least 2.5%.

  3. Jeff Simpson says:

    So nota are you saying that the firefighters and police officers are so mindless as to do what their union(elected) leadership tells them to do no matter what?

  4. [Redacted] says:

    Vicki McKenna might regret saying these things if, god forbid, her house ever catches on fire or she ever gets robbed. I’m certainly not hoping that those things happen, just saying that I make a point of not deliberately pissing off the people who protect my property and life.

    And Nota, apparently you have forgotten a few things about the First Amendment: (1)The 1A protects the right of the minority, not just the majority as you imply. (2)Making noise and being disruptive has nothing to do with the 1A. Making noise and expressing contempt and disagreement are not the same as things like fighting words and incitement which are not protected by the 1A.

    Also, piece of advice to you, Nota: the “union thugs” line is really, really weak. Maybe you think it sounds powerful to compare people’s friends and neighbors, their relatives, their children’s teachers, their policemen and their firefighters to the Mafia, but it really just makes you look like an idiot.

    Oh, wait. You’re not trying to convince anyone. You just want to insult people who disagree with you. Carry on.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      @ [Redacted]

      “Nota. . .it really just makes you look like an idiot.”

      [Redacted], applying the “reasonable man” standard to Notalib is a mistake. Just ask Zach [and check out the discussion under the “Sarah Palin Gets Warm Welcome In Madison” article].

      Notalib IS an idiot, and a truly stupid idiot at that. The comment that he posted above is just further evidence of it.

      You’ll find that having a “conversation” with him is kind of like trying to have an adult conversation with five year-old.

      “Momma says, stupid is as stupid does [AND writes, AND thinks, AND. . .]”, as Forrest Gump was wont to say.

      • Zuma Bound says:

        Case in point:

        Little homey wrote, in pertinent part, “What is going on is the [sic] left have [sic] been unable to get a message out to the people that would generate support for them [sic]. . .”

        Uh huh. (*laughing*)

        “Stupid is as stupid [writes]”. . .

        5000 counter-protestors showed up at the rally sponsored by the Koch brothers-funded Americans For Prosperity organization, outnumbering the AFP rally attendees by 10 to 1, but THAT doesn’t stop Notalib from suggesting that the pro-union/anti-Walker message doesn’t resonate with “the people”.

        During the earlier and massive Madison protests against Snotty Scotty’s efforts to destroy the unions, hundreds of thousands of people shrugged off bitter cold day after day to attend, but Notalib, partisan blinders in place, singsonging, “La La La” and ignoring reality, says “the left have [sic] been unable to get a message out to the people that would generate support for them [sic].”

        Snotty Scotty’s poll numbers are in the tank, Prosser lost a 30 point lead over Kloppenburg in less than two months, as the direct and proximate result of Walker’s union-busting efforts, and Nota(“La La La, I can’s HEAR you”)lib maintains that the anti-Walker message JUST doesn’t resonate with “the people”.

        Then, in a move certain to cause everyone here intellectual whiplash, having coined and repeatedly used any number of over-the-top and completely unjustified insults for union members over time here, he NOW says that we must “sympathize”, and “not demonize” the union members who attended the pro-Walker AFP rally as counter-protesters because “. . .they are only doing what they are being told to do [sic] they [sic] have no choice.”

        All I can say is “classic Notalib”. Just make up things as he go along, whatever it takes in order to allow him to cling to his irrational partisan bias, to “save face”, and to protect his fragile ego/hide his massive inferiority complex.

        Well, little homey, your newfound empathy for union members notwithstanding, I’m sure that the union members who counter-protested at the pro-Walker AFP rally vigorously and passionately agree with your self-serving characterization of why they were there.

        The counter-protesters were passionate and noisy. Noise is the inevitable byproduct of passionate political disagreement in a LARGE crowd. It isn’t a “technique” or a “standard action”, as you put it. It is an expression of the very support for unions in Wisconsin that you refuse, for strictly partisan reasons, as well as for reasons related to your Intelligence Quotient (that’s IQ for the simpletons like Notalib among us), to see and/or acknowledge, just as it was with respect to the earlier and original Madison protests.

        But, prattle on, my misguided and intellectually challenged wingnut brother. Beyond making you look like an idiot as [Redacted] noted/”advised”, acting and arguing as you do, not to mention writing like a third grader, only serves to alienate people, as well as to convince them that your opponents have the better argument.

        “Stupid is as stupid [writes]”. . .

    • Notalib says:

      Once again redacted she has everyright to say what she wants, but here you are in typical union fashion saying that “she better be careful what she says because next time she needs fire protection…..” sounds like a threat to me. Almost something a thug would use to intimidate someone.

      • T. says:

        You really think they’re going to let her house burn down or someone break in and not find them just because of their political beliefs? UPDATE – many of these union workers are conservative and would be following the Tea Party if not for the union busting and their own livelihoods are at stake. Why else do you think Florida suddenly has dropped in their party membership with Republicans choosing to become Independent or Democrats?

        Oh wait, right the ‘break in’ at Recalling Senator Hansen’s office, right is being so ignored by union thugs. The one where there was glass outside of the window, somehow defying physics with no blood, and no clothing evidence that you decided to break even more for the television camera before the media arrived. Classy.

        • Notalib says:

          T I am not the one who said it, it was a supporter of unions here who said it could happen.

          • T. says:

            Vicki McKenna might regret saying these things if, god forbid, her house ever catches on fire or she ever gets robbed. I’m certainly not hoping that those things happen, just saying that I make a point of not deliberately pissing off the people who protect my property and life.

            However, this is just pure speculation. If this was a member of the union saying this, this might be a different story — to say the union are equal to thugs because of what one person said who might not even be a part of one? Exactly. It’s like if someone who supports the Tea Party said something along the lines that all the 14 Senators of Wisconsin should be executed and tortured for treason. Worrisome? Absolutely. From the Tea Party itself? I can’t say.

            For the most part, unions only send ‘threats’ by saying they won’t go to a business anymore — aka hurting the pocketbooks of that business. I don’t think they’re going to watch a home burn to the ground and not do anything about it since – you know a lot of that? Is their job.

            • Jeff Simpson says:

              http://bloggingblue.com/2010/10/06/mea-culpa-2/

              only in towns run by the extreme right wing could the fire department ever let a house burn to the ground and not help…

              • T. says:

                Considering I read a case back in January where two children died in Pennsylvania while this right winged town watched a house burn to the ground because they decided to cut their firefighters and police officers, I’m not surprised anymore. I have to find it again, but considering the comments were – “Well they should have paid the fee! They deserved to have their children taken away.” Yeah. Wonderful people.

                • Notalib says:

                  I remember it the people were outside the city so there was a $75 yearly fee for fire protection, they decided they did not want to pay it, so when the time came they needed a service that others were paying for they were out of luck, it was their choice not to pay the $75. If the fire dept would have put the blaze out then next time more would nt have paid the fee knowing that the fire will be put out. Is it sad for them to have lost their home absolutely was the fire dept responsible for it, not at all. It has nothing to do with it being a right wing or left wing town it has everything to do with paying your fess for your services, but of course you leftwingers need ot make it political and of course you are going to demonize the right without any proof.

                  • [Redacted] says:

                    Notalib, you are deliberately misconstruing what I said. I said “I make a point of not deliberately pissing off the people who protect my property and life.” That doesn’t mean I think bad things should or will happen to people who say bad things to or about firefighters or police officers, it means that I generally find it a helpful policy to say nice things to and about people who perform an important job, and whom I may someday depend upon for my personal safety or the survival of my family and property. “Biting the hand that feeds” would be another way to put it.

                    If you lack the reading comprehension to understand that, then I do not wish to engage with you at all, because you’re simply going to twist whatever is said to suit your ends.

                    • Zuma Bound says:

                      @ [Redacted]

                      “[Notalib], [i]f you lack the reading comprehension to understand that. . .”

                      He does. Like I’ve said elsewhere, he just isn’t very bright. Trying to reason with him is like trying to reason with a two year-old.

                      Just ask Zach. Or read the comment thread under the “Sarah Palin Gets Warm Reception” article from a few days ago. Notalib is JUST that stupid. What Joey was to “Friends”, Notalib is to this blog. Don’t waste your time on him. If we were all smart, we would just ignore and marginalize him.

                      “Stupid is and [Notalib] does.”

                  • T. says:

                    It has nothing to do with it being a right wing or left wing town it has everything to do with paying your fess for your services, but of course you leftwingers need ot make it political and of course you are going to demonize the right without any proof.

                    Wrong story, this one is completely different what I’m talking about. This is one where they cut the firefighters and police from the budget completely and didn’t have a damn community owned firefighters group so that when a fire happened they didn’t do anything and allowed those children to die all while blaming the parents for not being able to get to them.

                    Yep.

                  • Jeff Simpson says:

                    im not going to rehash it because everything is in the link i provided. However I will point out that they paid their taxes, and your statement is just false.

                    • Notalib says:

                      From YOUR post, “Gene kranick is someone who paid his taxes, he just did not pay the $75 extra fire protection fee”

                      I was 100% correct, they did not pay the fee.

                  • Zuma Bound says:

                    @ Notalib

                    You really are an idiot, one with the BIGGEST pair of partisan blinders that I have ever seen.

                    You are as fast and loose with the facts as anyone could possibly be.

                    The true facts are these:

                    (1) The homeowner is question had overlooked/forgot to pay the $75.00 fee; and

                    (2) Once the fire department advised him that the fee had not been paid and that they would not, accordingly, save his house, the homeowner offered to pay the fee. The fire department refused to accept, electing instead to watch his house burn down.

                    You should be ashamed of yourself for your willingness to distort the truth, not to mention for your defense of the indefensible.

                    Jackass.

                    • T. says:

                      Once the fire department advised him that the fee had not been paid and that they would not, accordingly, save his house, the homeowner offered to pay the fee. The fire department refused to accept, electing instead to watch his house burn down.

                      Exactly. This is pretty much my problem with it, even when he offered to pay the fee – they didn’t accept it.

    • Ed Heinzelman says:

      Notalib also forgot that the first amendment doesn’t guarantee freedom of speech anywhere, anyhow, anytime!

      (The amendment prohibits the making of any law “respecting an establishment of religion”, impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.)

      It prohibits government from limiting speech…you don’t have freedom of speech anywhere on the internet…you can’t protest on private property without permission…etc.

      Say something that pisses off an editor and see your rights disappear on a news site…violate a site’s TOS…good bye access…try to pass out literature or get nomination papers signed in a mall or in front of your favorite grocery store…you’ll get asked to leave…protest against Gov. Walker’s agenda in front of the Chase bank and the cops come and put up police tape at the property line…

    • Zach says:

      [Redacted], I think Vicki McKenna’s comments were despicable, but I know enough firefighters to know that no matter what vile and hateful things she may say about them, they’ll continue to do their jobs, and I disagree with any assertion or implication that they should or would do otherwise.

      • [Redacted] says:

        Agreed, Zach. I’m not trying to make that assertion, but rather to point out the ingratitude involved. Could you imagine, for instance, Vicki McKenna’s reaction if someone said what she said about servicemen and women? That’s what I was trying to get at, although I readily concede that my wording was overly aggressive, so to the extent that I left my meaning susceptible to an offensive misinterpretation, I apologize.

  5. Zuma Bound says:

    There was this “Far Side” cartoon that Gary Larson did about ten years ago that makes me think that he must have known Notalib back then.

    A couple of crows are roosting on a telephone line up above a sidewalk. They are looking down at a guy on the sidewalk. One of them says, “Look at that guy. Looks like he is deep in thought about something important. I wonder what he’s thinking about.”

    Down near the guy on the sidewalk, Larson put a “thought bubble” which showed what he was “thinking”: “Left [foot], right [foot], left [foot]”. . .

    THAT guy is Notalib.

    The simple truth is that what Notalib writes, not to mention the garbled syntax/grammar and absolute intellectual incoherence with which he writes, is written with all of the sophistication, insight and maturity of a third-grader.

    For whatever reason, he shows up here, day in and day out, to do battle with those far more intellectually gifted, and certainly far better educated, than he. What he gets out of it, I’ll never know. Maybe he didn’t get enough of being punked on a regular basis when he was back in school. You know, because he was THE dumb kid who never got anything right. Maybe, because he can retain anonymity here, he is still trying to “relitigate” all of the hurt that he suffered back then. Who knows.

    Anyway, I guess that it doesn’t really matter. Putting up with his juvenile nonsense is annoying, but not exactly life-threatening.

    So, whenever he shows up, just try to picture that guy on the sidewalk in the “Far Side” cartoon. And, when you read something that he has written, try to remember that Notalib is just trying as hard as he can NOT to “fall down”.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      Does anybody remember that “Friends” episode where Notalib, I mean, Joey, says something stupid, and Chandler looks at everybody else and say, “HOW does this guy NOT fall down more often?!”

      Notalib, you’re this website’s “Joey”.

      “Stupid [writes] what stupid is.”

      Remember to wear your helmet when you go outside, all right, little homey?

      For that matter, be sure to wear it when you’re at your computer, too, at least whenever you get the impulse to post a comment here, okay? (*laughing*)

      School was very, very difficult for you, wasn’t it? Poor baby. . .

  6. Give Vicki McKenna a break. She’s got a wolf on her back, a snake on her chest, and, obviously, worms in her heart.

  7. Notalib says:

    ZUMA babbled, “If we were all smart, we would just ignore and marginalize him.”

    And yet almost every post he has done recently has been an attack against me, maybe this dimwit needs to take his own advice, but wait, he said if we were smart, well that eliminates him then…..guess it explians why all of his post in this thread is about me.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      @ Notalib

      I’m many things, Notalib. Being a “dimwit” isn’t one of them. In any event, I’m pretty confident no one else here shares your assessment of me in that regard.

      So, what’s the matter, little homey, pressure getting to you? Thought that you didn’t read my posts because they weren’t worthy of your attention. (*laughing*)

      You really are an idiot. Think I’m alone in feeling that way? Read Zach comments under the “Sarah Palin Gets Warm Welcome In Madison” article. Consider [Redacted]’s remarks here. Pretty much everyone else here sees you as an idiot, or how did Zach put it the other day, a moron. You need to get real, little homey. You’re the DUMB kid in this class

      Anyway, little homey, just so you know, stripping away the layers and revealing a given person’s inner idiot, particularly an obnoxious and malignant one, is all just a part of the marginalization process.

      You write with all of the sophistication, depth and maturity of a third grader. You don’t really “listen”. You mischaracterize facts. You mischaracterize what other people say, to the extent that you do not ignore it entirely. If you find yourself cornered as Zach cornered you on the “Sarah Palin Gets Warm Welcome In Madison”, you try to lie or mischaracterize your way out of the corner. You parrot wingnut talking points. You demonize your political opponents endlessly and unjustifiably, generally to the exclusion of making an meaningful and substantive contribution to any given topic. In sum, you have absolutely no idea how to engage in civil and constructive discourse.

      Initially, I tried to engage in a civil and constructive discourse with you, but very quickly realized that you are not interested in or capable of engaging in same.

      Sure, I am presently as candid about who you are as I could possibly. You opened the door for that by conducting yourself as you have.

      As a lawyer, I understand the need for the structured and dispassionate exchange of views. Logic and reason matter to me, and you and the manner in which you conduct yourself lack both. That, along your immature, inarticate, often incoherent, demonizing partisan hackery, offends me to the core, Notalib. There is only so much rank stupidity that an intelligent person can take, not that is something that a moron like you could ever understand.

      So, yeah, I spend a little time and effort knocking you down a few pegs. You deserve it. AND it serves to marginalize you, whether that concept penetrates your thick skull or not. The stupid are definitely THE last to know anything.

      Get some help, little homey. You really need it, not that you’re capable of realizing it, arrogance and stupidity, as they say, being one of the more dangerous of combinations from which to suffer.

      As I’ve advised you repeatedly, you would be best served by finding some wingnut echo chamber where all of your worst qualities, e.g. your lack of intellectual heft and depth, would simply be embraced with a lot of figurative backslapping from fellow denizens of The Wingnut Nation, particularly the many that share them with you.

      Here, you’re just the “village” idiot.

      • Zach says:

        Enough…..the both of you can stop anytime.

        • Zuma Bound says:

          Then straighten Notalib out, Zach.

          You know what I’m talking about.

          I’m happy to hold my fire, as long as you police his behavior here better by expecting/demanding greater civility and rationality from him.

          I don”t particularly relish the role of bad cop, but I haven’t seen you rein Notalib in.

          Time you did, Zach.

    • Zach says:

      Listen, you’re not exactly innocent when it comes to attacks on others, whether personal or more general in nature. If you want, I can conjure up the list of links that I have, since there’s no shortage of attacks that you’ve leveled.

      Y’know, I’ve tried really hard to be tolerant and to give you and others some leeway, but I find it increasingly hard to continue to justify when you continue to use personal attacks, sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, and flat out lies as your stock in trade.

      I’d love to see you stop, because I’m willing to bet that if you did, you’d find that you’d be on the receiving end of attacks far less.

  8. Notalib says:

    he said he forgot,really it’s his word, not a fact. it is more like he gambled and lost. should they have put it out of course, but were they wrong not too do it, no.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      Does anybody remember that “Friends” episode where Notalib, I mean, Joey, says something stupid, and Chandler looks at everybody else and say, “HOW does this guy NOT fall down more often?!”

      Notalib, you’re this website’s “Joey”.

      “Stupid [writes] what stupid is.”

      Remember to wear your helmet when you go outside, all right, little homey?

      For that matter, be sure to wear it when you’re at your computer, too, at least whenever you get the impulse to post a comment here, okay? (*laughing*)

      School was very, very difficult for you, wasn’t it? Poor baby. . .

    • Zuma Bound says:

      @ Notalib

      You really are an idiot, one with the BIGGEST pair of partisan blinders that I have ever seen.

      You are as fast and loose with the facts as anyone could possibly be.

      The true facts are these:

      (1) The homeowner is question had overlooked/forgot to pay the $75.00 fee; and

      (2) Once the fire department advised him that the fee had not been paid and that they would not, accordingly, save his house, the homeowner offered to pay the fee. The fire department refused to accept, electing instead to watch his house burn down.

      You should be ashamed of yourself for your willingness to distort the truth, not to mention for your defense of the indefensible.

      Jackass.

      • Zach says:

        Oooookay…..now I’m gonna step in and say enough is enough. Zuma, I know you’ve got much more to add to the dialog than attacks on Notalib. You’ve made your point about what you think of him/her, and there’s no sense in beating a dead horse, if you’ll pardon the expression.

        Nothing you write here is going to change they way Notalib thinks or posts, so you’re better off just moving on and devoting your time and energy into adding something to the dialog the rest of us are trying to have.

        • Zuma Bound says:

          If you’ll notice, Zach, I have been contributing to the dialog, but, you know what, Notalib’s cognitive dissonance disrupts things, like fingernails on a chalkboard.

          In any event, whether you believe it or not, and if Notalib was willing to admit it, what I’ve had to say HAS had an effect on “they [sic] way Notalib thinks [and] posts”. The effect is subtle, but it’s definitely there.

          In any event, before posting this, did you consider the idea that Notalib, child that he is, is just chortling over his keyboard at the fact that I was the one that “got called into the princpal’s office”?

          Zach, seriously, you need to think about things in a more proactive way. Maybe it’s time that you suspended Notalib’s posting privileges, with an admonition to change his approach to commenting as a condition of having those privileges restored. Think THAT might possibly “change the way that Notalib. . .posts” here?

          I’m perfectly willing to go elsewhere to find intelligent debate, if need be. I guess that’s up to you.

  9. Zuma Bound says:

    Then straighten Notalib out, Zach.

    You know what I’m talking about.

    I’m happy to hold my fire, as long as you police his behavior here better by expecting/demanding greater civility and rationality from him.

    I don”t particularly relish the role of bad cop, but I haven’t seen you rein Notalib in.

    Time you did, Zach.

    • Zach says:

      Fair enough. I’ve tried to give folks on both sides a lot of leeway going back to before you joined us; perhaps I’ve given too much though.

  10. Zuma,

    Notalib has Dumbass. It’s a culture borne disorder that he’s picked up over the years. I’ve offered to treat him with beer and redneck, (or as Joe Bageant would say ” leftneck”) talk, but he’s pretty ill. Prognosis isn’t good.

    There are some who just aren’t going to make it.

    • Zuma Bound says:

      (*laughing*) I hear ya, Steve. But, ya know, while the “disorder” probably isn’t curable, the behavior in which Notalib engages here because he suffers from it is, in my view, definitely “treatable” or manageable, just like the misbehavior of any willful and obstinate child would be.

      I suggested a “time out” to Zach, a suspension of Notalib’s posting privileges, along with a warning to shape up or risk permanent cancellation of the privileges.

      Anyway, the ball is in Zach’s court now.

      • Zach says:

        I’ve already taken my shot, if we’re using a basketball analogy. Things are going to be monitored much more closely from now on.

        • Zuma Bound says:

          All right, Zach, I hope everything works out.

          In the meantime, I’m just going to ignore Notalib.

          For the record, that’s the approach that I usually take with people like him on other sites, generally because webmasters elsewhere are fairly swift and ruthless in revoking posting privileges for posting the kinds of comments that Notalib posts here. And it is an effective approach.

          They do that because they want to elevate the quality and tone of the debate, they do it because they want to attract intelligent, thoughtful and articulate people to their sites, and they do it because they recognize that it is unfair to other people on the site to have to tolerate the misbehavior of certain individuals.

          Personally, and based upon what you had to say in your comment up above about Notalib’s past behavior, I think that you’ve already sufficiently “monitored” Notalib’s behavior to know that it is time to take more extreme measures:

          “Listen, you’re not exactly innocent when it comes to attacks on others, whether personal or more general in nature. If you want, I can conjure up the list of links that I have, since there’s no shortage of attacks that you’ve leveled.

          Y’know, I’ve tried really hard to be tolerant and to give you and others some leeway, but I find it increasingly hard to continue to justify when you continue to use personal attacks, sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, and flat out lies as your stock in trade.”

          It’s your site, Zach. I’m stepping out of the fray. Notalib drags the level of discourse here into the depths. If that is something that you want to continue to just “monitor”, in the words of John Boehner, “So be it”. But the site, what could otherwise be a great site, suffers the longer you do that, and you risk losing intelligent and thoughtful participants in the discourse here, not to mention risking scaring them away outright.

          Anyway, Zach, good luck.

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