Anyone reading this blog won’t be surprised to hear that I am vehemently opposed to Right To Work legislation. Nor that I am not particularly happy about the events from the past week or so that have lead to this particular blog.

The first shot across the bows of Wisconsin labor came on Monday December 1st, when it was announced that Lorri Pickens, a former employee of various stripes for Americans for Prosperity, was organizing Wisconsin Right To Work. Ms. Pickens of course intends to lobby Madison lawmakers in support of right to work legislation in Wisconsin. During the recent campaign, the Republicans essentially took the position that Right To Work legislation wasn’t on their radar, so it is not wholly surprising that someone would want to lobby in favor.

And then before the ink is even dry on their letterhead, State Representative Chris Kapenga (R – Delafield) promised to introduce a right to work bill in the legislature.

And then, on Thursday December 4th, fearing the state senate might get left behind in right to work herohood, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R – Juneau) said there was no way that the topic could be avoided.

So essentially in a month’s time…from the November 4th election when Right to Work hadn’t crossed our mind…to December 4th when Right to Work legislation had become inevitable!

Fitzgerald first raised his proposal with conservative talk radio host Charlie Sykes of WTMJ-AM (620), and then later Thursday discussed it with statehouse reporters. It was a complete shift from the rhetoric of Republicans who in the months leading up to the November election called the issue a distraction and insisted it was not a priority.

As bad as it is on the face of it, there are some really heinous activities within the right’s Right to Work discussions.

First is Senator Fitzgerald’s claim that the discussion is inevitable and that it should be taken up in the Senate before the Assembly…when there has been no movement in the Senate to introduce a bill and the assembly bill so far is still just a gleam in Representative Kapenga’s right eye.

“We can’t tiptoe through this session without addressing this,” Fitzgerald told Sykes on Thursday. “We’re not tackling this six months from now. We’re not tackling this a year from now. … There’s no way we avoid this issue. We have to deal with this issue right now.”

Fitzgerald said he would be willing to have the Senate vote first on the measure. Given that the backing for it is stronger in the state Assembly, the majority leader’s remarks signaled that support for the idea among conservative lawmakers could be too great to stop.

But I do find a bit of humor in this statement from the senator:

“It’s my opinion it has to come up early” in the session that begins in January, Fitzgerald told reporters. “I don’t know how we get through the session without having this debate.”

It seems to me that as Senate Majority Leader, Senator Fitzgerald should be able to quash just about any legislative initiative before it ever reaches the actual state senate for consideration…so when he says he doesn’t know how to avoid the debate he is either lying or…well he’s just lying.

But well and good…so far this is Republican politics in Madison as usual…the same sleight of hand that we’ve seen the past four years…distract and confuse…divide and conquer. We pretty much knew this was coming despite the Republican denials on the campaign trail.

But here’s where it really gets interesting. Just like the police and fire unions were left out of the betrayals of public employees built into Act 10…unions who supported Governor Walker in 2010…they are now looking for ways to insulate the private unions that supported them in 2014…divide and conquer at it’s most blatant…or maybe it’s another hand of pay to play?:

Nearly four years after mostly eliminating collective bargaining for public workers, Republicans are considering putting limits on most private-sector unions while giving an unprecedented exemption to the labor groups that support them politically.

One key impediment to passing such legislation has been the support Republicans have received from a few private-sector unions, including the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 139, whose members run the heavy equipment used to build roads and other infrastructure.

Thursday, Fitzgerald said Republicans could exempt the operating engineers, pipe fitters and certain other trade unions from any bill. But he also conceded that this approach could make the law more vulnerable to a legal challenge.

“We don’t know yet what can or can’t be done. If you asked three attorneys — three labor attorneys — what would or wouldn’t work, you’d get three different answers,” he said.

So they want to punish those unions who opposed the election of Governor Walker and the Republicans in the legislature while rewarding the unions who provided them with support. And they are brazen enough to discuss it openly even when the most dullard among them think it might actually be illegal.

Meanwhile, across the rotunda, the governor is sticking to his position that Right To Work legislation isn’t a priority…in fact it’s a distraction:

A day after a top Republican lawmaker announced he wanted to take up so-called right-to-work legislation early next year, Gov. Scott Walker said the move would detract from his attempts to cut taxes and make schools more accountable.

“My position has been — it’s hasn’t changed — I think it’s a distraction,” the GOP governor told Capitol reporters.

Too late governor…it’s already a distraction…if you can’t rein in your cohorts I assume you are paying RTW lip service…and are not actually opposed to the idea!

Update: Correcting Rep. Kapenga’s home from Brookfield to Delafield>

146 Responses to Right To Work In The Badger State

  1. Dohnal says:

    Finally worker in wisconsin will be free. unions are from another era.

    • If by “free” you mean “free to earn less” then you’re on point.

      • Chris says:

        Oh Zach, just like concealed carry would lead to the wild west or that act ten would cause the end of the world… Voters are getting tired of the same old doom and gloom rhetoric from you guys.

        If you say it is bad that means it will probably be great.

        • nonquixote says:

          That’s why certain organizations like operating engineers and the pipefitters’ unions were immediately in before the Republi-con’s caucus begging for exemptions and “special,” treatment carve-outs from Walker’s baby, the full corporate greed and employee wage theft legislation.

          No, we’re simply repeating some rhetoric we heard coming from under that, “we stand with liar,” bus.

        • Are you saying there haven’t been shootouts in Wisconsin between concealed carry permit holders?

          • Chris says:

            I’m saying Wisconsin is better off with concealed carry and act ten. I think it is clear that the doom and gloom that your ilk spoke of related to those two laws was wildly overstated.

            • nonquixote says:

              Just because you are saying it, is just so much putrid bullshit. You exhibit the typical speech of a batterer, an abuser, a violent authoritarian who fails to reason on any issue and who’s sole purpose is simply to dominate using unjustified force coupled with verbal abuse. “Officer,” Wilson to a T (party) is you, attempting murder at every turn. Generalizing everyone else reading here or on the left as “ilk” should have you banned from the site already.

              Economically better off than what? Neither you nor Bob’s fact free sniping is an argument or a discussion when all you have are authoritarian pronouncements. Act 10, just slightly better than Mississippi’s economy, is that the goal, that’s good enough? Not for most readers here.

              Better citizen safety than Syria, Libya or Yemen or the DROC under our concealed carry laws, where handling a firearm is NOT even part of qualifying for a CC permit? Where law enforcement doesn’t get to know who might be, “carrying” at a particular address or vehicle stop? You think that they might find themselves a bit more, “trigger happy,” anticipating trouble when responding? Finally CC was not the topic here. But as usual, irrelevant to the topic bullshit is key to YOU avoiding any actual discussion, key to your derisive, “flaming,” and key to dominating others in your might makes right world.

              • Chris says:

                My goodness! Someone sure is cranky… I didn’t realize I was an abusing murderer… Thanks for the update!

                I guess wanting workers to have the right to choose makes me a murdering racist. I thought dems likes choice oh except when it costs them money into union coffers… I understand.

                • nonquixote says:

                  Honest comments are automatically crankiness? .

                  I’m glad you agree with my assessment of your blog commenting behavior. I am a bit surprised that you are in agreement in classifying Darren Wilson as a murdering racist. Hang around here some more and you might even qualify as a neoliberal pretty soon.

                  Your statement of offering workers and labor a “right to choose,” sounds like the re-con’s willingness to be offering women a right to choose.

                  We do understand that the offer to workers is nothing more than the right to give up all of their rights and have no say in work agreements about anything regarding employment.

                  But I’m certain that until you are blocked from commenting you’ll continue to prove yourself nothing more than a disruptive troll and a total ass, commenting here for no other reason.

                  • Chris says:

                    Oh non! I don’t remember calling you names but your comments sure remind me of this little bitch of a man I used to date. I want to be sure you understand that when you kiss your mom at night you are doing so with a filthy mouth.

                    If you want to hook up later you seen like the receiver type of guy, I will gladly be the giver. I didn’t expect this site to be a place where a hook up could happen but your dirty filthy mouth has turned me on.

                  • chris says:

                    “Ilk” is a banable word, but the crash you spew is what… You sir make me puke with laughter. Your ideas and thoughts are exactly the reason you have had your ass handed to you in Wisconsin for the last for years. You are a mean filthy potty mouth. I can’t believe you kiss your mom with that filthy mouth.

                • nonquioxte says:

                  On the topic of Internet Trolls,

                  “A troll is not even ‘an enemy soldier’, a warrior who landed on the wrong side of the trenches. A troll is only a snitch, a loser, and a collaborator with the regime, a pest. Or he or she is a traitor.”

                  http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/05/trolls-we-create-they-spoil-and-we-fight-back/

    • nonquixote says:

      What’s that? All Wisconsin workers will finally work for free? Finally some right wing honesty.

      Proposals/denials/distraction about right to work as slaves legislation have, to this point, been not too subtle, fooling no one, trial balloons to test public and media reaction/traction.

  2. Conslayer says:

    Unions are almost dead. 6% of private workers are unionized and half of those are shitty ineffective ones like hospitality unions. This state is full of fascist hillbillies anyways, too stupid to understand what is happening. Hard to give a fuck about them anymore. Germany has paid maternity leave, paid university, paid vacations, universal health care and strong unions. Other competing countries have the same. The only good that will come out of it is the scapegoating the teabaggers do will have to shift to some other convenient victim because it should not be tolerated for them to claim union interference with the market.

  3. nonquixote says:

    And from the Scott Wittkopf at the Forward Institute, just off the presses, progressives need to be aware of our repetition of conservative mantras when discussing topics like the issue in the OP. Not re-framing the language only reinforces the conservative message.

    http://www.forwardinstitutewi.org/conservatives-and-right-to-work-its-a-trap/

    Maybe an exercise in alternative descriptions of the issue? Maybe the DPW Admn Comm intellectuals can chime in with some useful messaging help?

  4. Jerry says:

    This is just the start of legislation that will leave Wisconsin in the rear view mirror but will give Walker added credentials with the conservative and Tea party base of the Republican party in his run for the White House. This has been planned for months and Walker will feign that this is not on his radar and he is really not behind this legislation. But he will happily sign it along with anything else that Vos and Fitzgerald send his way as part of the “Great Conservative Experiment” that is not doing crap for the citizens of this state but it gives Walker a stage on which to perform for his handlers. This is all scripted and staged for Walker to try and win the Republican nomination for president. We had better get accustomed to these legislative actions as Walker has all the power both legislative and judicial and he and his minions can do anything they want and there is nothing the rest of us can do about it. Turn out the lights Wisconsin!

    • Dohnal says:

      BS, we must do it to compete with other states. all the states growing are red states, not blie.

      • Jake formerly of the LP says:

        Hey Dumb Dohnal, this isn’t the Sykes show. You need to actually cite data and sources when you make a claim like that. Especially when very blue a Minnesota has kicked our @ss for the last 4 years, and has a $1 billion surplus while we have a $3 million deficit.

        Show your work, old guy.

      • EmmaR says:

        Not according to Forbes. I’d also encourage you to drill down into the cities driving state growth.

  5. ohbrad says:

    “But I can see Kansas from my front porch!”

  6. EmmaR says:

    This was choreographed, political kabuki theater. Right-to-work is on no one’s mind in the Wisconsin business community except for the handful of crazies who always think everyone is out to get them. Hard enough to get good talent to stay or come to Wisconsin and this looniness makes it just that much tougher for Wisconsin companies. Still, kind of fun to watch the Operating Engineers grovel.

  7. Dan says:

    I actually suspect this whole thing is a political ploy geared toward making Walker look more “presidential”. I really don’t think he wants a repeat of that whole mess he had during his first term. If the legislature passes right to work and Walker vetoes it, the hard line conservatives get to say they tried, Walker gets to say ‘look how bipartisan I can be’ and the status quo is maintained.

  8. Denis Navratil says:

    What we have here, re Ed’s posting, is politicians being political. I am shocked, I mean SHOCKED!

  9. EmmaR says:

    So are any Democrats messaging against this? Seems to me you’d ask Kapenga why he’s against middle class jobs. You’d question the idea of making Wisconsin more competitive when our wages have dropped to Alabama levels. And you’d ask which businesses in Wisconsin precisely wish to see this law (it’s of course Walmart). Lastly, you’d muse out loud on the sheer ghastliness of turning white middle and working class voters into the tool of their own demise.

    • nonquixote says:

      Democrats are being as successful at messaging as this blog has been in disallowing, figuratively eliminating, three entities that have proudly stated their sole objectives are to blow up and destroy discussion here.

      Unless they are allowed to be here to as deliberate click bait, I don’t get it. Their sociopathy or psychopathy, take your pick, is deliberate and

      “…predicated on the exclusion of the Other as the means of affirming the self, represents the social pathology of nihilism (the cheapening of all life except that of its own; denial of the suffering and degradation caused the Other, in the name of its imagined superiority and closeness to God). Not mere exclusiveness, but politically-economically-militarily implemented exclusion, which necessarily carries the seeds of ethnocentrism, itself a central component of authoritarianism, if not indeed, a principal pathway to genocide. Thus far, ethnic cleansing, population displacement, forcible eviction, have not reached genocidal proportions; checkpoints, house searches, an overriding societal atmosphere of overlordship and armed intimidation presently will have to do.” -Norman Pollack

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/05/social-pathology-of-nihilism/

      Why they are allowed to comment here after clearly expressing their intentions, is sort of like the failure of Democratic leadership taking the bull by the horns and acting. Is the leadership just an accurate reflection of the D base? Ignoring problems, hoping that ignorance will sufficiently address anything?

      • Dohnal says:

        Obama, Barrett, Doyle have been total disasters for the working class in this state.

        • EmmaR says:

          Got anything specific (facts, well-reasoned argument, links)?

          • Dohnal says:

            Look at the numbers on jobs, net worth, salaires, taxes, food prices, energy prices tll the last tfew weeks. What have they done to fix educaiton messes? Nothing. All BS. We get streetcars, arenas, more cirme, free phone, no reading for kids, food stamps but no jobs.

            • Ed Heinzelman says:

              Dohnal, put down the kool aid. You’re an adult now.

            • EmmaR says:

              I do look at the job numbers as a matter of fact, Dohnal. So tell me what it is you see in those numbers that backs up your statement?

              • Dohnal says:

                We have less people working now, than ten years ago and that is crippling budgets.

                • Jake formerly of the LP says:

                  FALSE Dumb Dohnal- In fact we have added more jobs as a country than any year since 1999, and are a few million ahead of the peak reached in 2014. Blue-voting Minnesota has zoomed past their former peak and is creating jobs near the national rate. Wisconsin is an exception to this rule, and it’s because Walker policies have kept us 72,000 jobs behind the national rate.

                  And you think doubling down on this failed track record is a good idea? Please enlighten us on what’s being missed. WITH REAL NUMBERS AND FACTS THIS TIME, not AM radio talking points.

                  Or do you lack the guts, old man?

                • EmmaR says:

                  So not much to go on here -no numbers nor sources – but I think what you’re getting at is the unemployment rate. For November it fell to 5.8 percent. For November of 2004 it was 5.4 percent. Given what’s happened in between during Bush’s Presidency, that’s pretty good news, wouldn’t you say? Personally, I think more granular data tells the story of income inequality. And I think an examination of budgetary strains would include income inequality data as well as data on subsidies, tax loopholes, rewards for offshoring, perpetual warfare on terror and drugs. I would be hard-pressed to pin the sources of these particular problems on the three gentlemen you mentioned, I’d go back further. But this after all is your theory – have I given you enough direction to go on? Good luck.

                • John Casper says:

                  Dohnal,

                  If you were a conservative, in addition to employment numbers, you’d be looking at residential real estate values (that’s where Wall Street has most recently hollowed out the middle class), new housing starts, and new car sales. That’s the guts of the U.S. economy and the middle class.

                  Working for room and board equals slavery.

        • nonquixote says:

          Bob,

          Obviously you’ve been in the total propaganda business long enough to know the definition of a strawman argument, introduced as a distraction from the topic at hand. You’ll never rank even a “nice try,” with your pathetic yammering.

          This topic is about the destruction Walker has already done to overall economic activity in WI and in particular to people we all know who suffered greatly under ACT 10. Now we are discussing the wholly predictable further ratcheting down on labor rights which will drive WI’s economy farther toward total collapse, creating family financial disasters which will offer opportunities for billionaires to pick up key properties for bargain basement prices from citizens thrown to the curb for following the rules as they were told, to get ahead and support themselves and their families.

          This is on Walker, dropping the bwamb, Act 10, this is on Walker and Fitzgerald and Vos and the Republican majority in this state, American traitors to every man woman and child in this state except their puppet master plutocratic overlords stuffing cash in their pockets to oppress labor.

        • John Casper says:

          Dohnal,

          Obama, Barrett, and Doyle destroyed Lake Michigan’s commercial fishing industry?

          “The Decline a Once-Great Fishery”
          http://www.jsonline.com/news/127244963.html

          Do you have a link to back up your claim?

      • Denis Navratil says:

        Wow. Just wow. That nonquixote wants to eliminate any blogger with whom he disagrees is old news by now. That he seamlessly inserts a quote from an article accusing Israel of …. wait for it….. anti-semitism in describing a few bloggers is evidence of serious mental imbalance. According to the warped mind of nonquixote, a handful of conservative bloggers who disagree with his take on progress are trying to “exclude the Other”. Never mind that it is nonquixote who on a daily basis calls for the exclusion of the “Other” on this site, that being conservative voices. My apparent attempts at exclusion are motivated by closeness to God which will be used to justify authoritarianism, ethnic cleansing and ultimately genocide. Nonquixote has revealed my plan of world domination…… and I will not be stopped unless you Zach Wisniewski…. ban me from this site.

        Seriously non, get some help.

        • John Casper says:

          Denis,

          In http://bloggingblue.com/2014/11/eric-genrich-look-back-to-move-progressive-politics-forward/

          you claim to have an MSW. “I went on to get a Masters in Social Work in my twenties.”

          I don’t believe you. I think you’re lying.

          1. Are you still licensed by the state?

          2. If not, when did your license lapse?

          3. Please provide a link to anyone who claims that anyone can diagnosis psychiatric symptoms from a chat room.

          4. Since you’re offering nonquixote “help,” please list ALL the DSM codes that you think apply. Do a little work, and prove me wrong about you lying your rear end off. Explain to us what nonquixote wrote and how you think that confirms something in the DSM4.

          5. Since you brought up Israel, True Torah Jews is a group of rabbis who agree with nonquixote. From their web site: “The State of Israel does not Jews or Judaism” http://www.truetorahjews.org/

          Do you want to make any claims about their mental health?

          You need to learn the difference between Zionism and Judaism.

          5. In your professional judgement is everyone else here at BB “ok” from a mental health standpoint? If not, why haven’t you afforded them the same “professional help,” that you’re sharing with nonquixote?

          • Denis Navratil says:

            “I don’t believe you. I think you’re lying” says John Casper, who then asks a series of questions, the answers to which he would not believe. Starting to see why I don’t answer your questions to often John? Anyway, I tend not to cyberstalk myself, but perhaps you could find the evidence you seek. I will help you out. I was licensed in Illinois. Got my degree from Loyola around about 1993, give or take a year. I am no longer a mental health professional so I don’t offer diagnoses, nor did I with non. One does not have to have a long lapsed MSW license to see that non is mentally disturbed.

            • John Casper says:

              Denis wrote: “I don’t believe you. I think you’re lying” says John Casper,”

              You actually wrote a factually accurate statement. Hoooray Denis!

              Denis wrote: “who then asks a series of questions, the answers to which he would not believe. Starting to see why I don’t answer your questions to often John?

              I know exactly why you don’t answer my questions. You lie. You don’t have an MSW. You don’t have a clue about what the DSM4 is and you’re too lazy to even do any research.

              Denis wrote: “Anyway, I tend not to cyberstalk myself,”

              I guess that means you stalk others. I’m not surprised.

              Denis wrote: “but perhaps you could find the evidence you seek.”

              I’ve got all the evidence that I need that you’re a malignant, revolting human being, who will post almost anything for money. Wanna prove me wrong, post an apology to nonquixote.

              Denis wrote: “I will help you out. I was licensed in Illinois. Got my degree from Loyola around about 1993, give or take a year.”

              You’re way too funny. I don’t know anyone who can’t remember what year they graduated.

              Denis wrote: “I am no longer a mental health professional”

              “I never was a mental health professional.”

              FIFY

              Denis wrote: “so I don’t offer diagnoses, nor did I with non.”

              You wrote: “Seriously non, get some help.”

              Then you just wrote: “One does not have to have a long lapsed MSW license to see that non is mentally disturbed.”

              Sure sounds like a diagnosis.

              I think Emma made an excellent point above about how unifying you, chris, and Bob can be on everyone else. I think there’s a case to be made that you’re helping BB’s traffic too.

              I wouldn’t support a ban of your handle (at this time), but absent a fully and detailed apology from you, imho, the insults against someone’s mental health status, because they have the temerity to disagree with you, more than warrant a suspension.

            • EmmaR says:

              It’s a funny sort of mental health professional who claims a diagnosis may be made on an individual solely based on their online comments. Of course it’s also a funny sort of Jesuit university graduate who dislikes the idea of workers collectively negotiating pay floors.

        • nonquixote says:

          @9:15 am today:

          It does not surprise me in the least that you would completely FAIL to be able to extrapolate even one bit of the Normal Pollack quote to apply to circumstances here in the USofA. Try this one tiny piece of it while thinking labor unions, Ferguson, Milwaukee, Oakland, Albuquerque, illegal armed security guards in the Penokees, and numerous other events and locales here in the states.

          “…an overriding societal atmosphere of overlordship and armed intimidation presently will have to do.”

          As EmmaR pointed out the other day it would be great to actually hear a reasoned conservative voice on the blogs here. It has yet to materialize.

          After bringing three significant links to expand the discussion in this thread, to explain the reality of the circumstances of what the left is up against, for barely criticizing Blogging Blue by suggesting they are coddling extremist radical conservatives by allowing their harassment to continue here, (I previously made the connection to perpetrators of domestic violence) and likening that failure to act where action should be taken, likening that to the state Democratic party ineffectual messaging is unacceptable commenting here.

          I guess I must be getting close to the actual truth of these matters, holding mirrors without discrimination to any views, and I am proud to claim being moderated in the comments for second time now.

          (to eliminate any confusion my comment way at the bottom Sat @7:20 pm, was a response to now removed personal attacks against myself and my deceased mother, thanks Ed, but those would have been instructive to leave posted)

        • John Casper says:

          Denis,

          Since you wrote above about your “closeness to God,” I included some passages from what God looks for from those who are “close” to the Almighty.

          Matthew 19:21
          Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

          Proverbs 19:17 ESV
          Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

          Luke 14:12-14
          He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

          Matthew 5:42
          Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

          Proverbs 22:9
          Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

          Isaiah 58:10
          If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.

          Luke 3:11
          And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

          Galatians 2:10
          Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

          Deuteronomy 15:11
          For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

          Matthew 25:34-46
          Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

          Proverbs 14:21
          Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

          Proverbs 14:31
          Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

          Matthew 6:1-4
          “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

          Leviticus 19:9-10
          “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.

          Leviticus 25:35
          “If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you.

          Luke 12:33
          Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

          Deuteronomy 14:28-29
          “At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.

          Exodus 23:11
          But the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the beasts of the field may eat. You shall do likewise with your vineyard, and with your olive orchard.

          Proverbs 28:27
          Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

          Psalm 140:12
          I know that the Lord will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and will execute justice for the needy.

          Psalm 12:5
          “Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan, I will now arise,” says the Lord; “I will place him in the safety for which he longs.”

          Luke 21:1-4
          Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

          Luke 10:30-37
          Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him.

          Ezekiel 16:49
          Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

          Luke 1:53
          He has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.

          Isaiah 58:6-7
          “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

          Proverbs 29:7
          A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.

          Luke 16:19-31
          “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

          Ezekiel 22:29
          The people of the land have practiced extortion and committed robbery. They have oppressed the poor and needy, and have extorted from the sojourner without justice.

          Jeremiah 5:28
          They have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of evil; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.

          Isaiah 25:4
          For you have been a stronghold to the poor, a stronghold to the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat; for the breath of the ruthless is like a storm against a wall,

          Acts 4:32-35
          Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

          Luke 7:22
          And he answered them, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them.

          Matthew 6:24
          “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

          Hebrews 13:3
          Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body.

          Deuteronomy 15:7
          “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother,

          Isaiah 58:7
          Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

          Psalm 41:1-2
          To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. Blessed is the one who considers the poor! In the day of trouble the Lord delivers him; the Lord protects him and keeps him alive; he is called blessed in the land; you do not give him up to the will of his enemies.

          Denis, below is your pathetic attempt at ethnic humor:

          “Denis Navratil
          November 25, 2014 at 7:30 am · Reply

          Mexicans are deemed white by progressives when they shoot a black person.”

          http://bloggingblue.com/2014/11/discuss-the-ferguson-decision/

          As someone who claims he is close to God, shouldn’t you apologize for that?

  10. Duane12 says:

    Since 1891, when Pope Leo XIII issued “On the Condition of Labor (Rerum Novarum)” to address serfdom and abuse of workers by capital, Catholic teachings support the right of workers to form and join unions.
    http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html

    And it has continued to be affirmed by every Pope since 1891 up to and including the current Pope, Francis, as well as by the American Catholic Bishops evidenced by a sampling:

    “The Church fully supports the rights of worker to form unions…to secure their rights to fair wages and working conditions…” Economic Justice for All. U.S.Catholic Bishops 1986

    “We consider it our duty to reaffirm that the remuneration of work is not something that can be left to the laws of the marketplace; nor should it be a decision left to the will of the more powerful. It must be determined in accordance with justice and equity; which means that workers must be paid a wage which allows them to live a truly human life and to fulfill their family obligations in a worthy manner.” Mater et Magistra(Mother and Teacher)#71 Pope John XXIII, 1961

    For more, search “Excerpts from Catholic Social Teaching on Labor, Unions, and Workers Rights”

    What the phony “pro lifers” like Scott Fitzgerald and Chris Kapenga and their conservative gang are doing, just as they did with Act 10, is an ABORTION of workers’ economic life. It also continues to enable the greed by some capitalists or a continuation of “unfettered Capitalism” to use a term introduced by Pope Francis.

    P.S. I am not now nor ever was a member of a union, but I am a Catholic who has reported monetary abuse by a Bishop to Pope Francis.

    • Denis Navratil says:

      Why are Catholic Church pronouncements relevant here? I thought progressives were against theocracy.

      • Conslayer says:

        Scott Fitzgerald is Catholic.

      • EmmaR says:

        Why not? In a Democracy aren’t the views of individuals informed by their faith allowed to be aired among all other voices? Or do you think Catholic voices should be squashed – what will your pro-lifer and school choice fellow travelers have to say about that, I wonder? I think Denis that you just don’t like what you see in the mirror Duane is holding up to you.

        • Denis Navratil says:

          “Why not? In a Democracy aren’t the views of individuals informed by their faith allowed to be aired among all other voices?” says EmmaR.

          I actually agree with your point EmmaR, but you apparently missed mine so I will spell it out for you. Typically, when a conservative includes a religious point of view when advocating a position, the progressives complain about theocracy, separating church and state etc…but I guess when the progressives use a religious point of view, all’s fair. The hypocrisy of the progressives, but apparently not you EmmaR, is what I was subtly pointing to.

          • John Casper says:

            Denis,

            Can you find scripture or a religious document that supports “Right to Work?”

            If you can, and IF someone attacks you for it, then, maybe, you could “play the victim card.”

          • John Casper says:

            Denis,

            I just want to piggy back on Duane’s excellent comments.

            It’s the First Amendment’s “Establishment clause, ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,'” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause that protects us from de-evolving into a theocracy.

            If you really were a conservative, you’d understand this stuff.

            “GRAPH: As Union Membership Has Declined, Income Inequality Has Skyrocketed In The United States”
            http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/03/147994/unions-income-inequality/

          • nonquixote says:

            Proxy @ 11:46 am demonstrates his/her total misstatement, misunderstanding or more likely deliberate mis-characterization of the relationship between progressives and theocracy. If that is actually his/her perception, it is in the highest order, simply wrong.

            EmmaR’s response is correct with her questions and conclusion about what Duane has expressed in the discussion.

            Proxy @ 1:33 pm conflates theocracy into a “substitution,” for hypocrisy. When conservatives include religious points of view advocating a position, progressives are complaining about the hypocrisy inherent in the conservative’s claim to be, oh shall we say, “helping,” the poor by reducing food shares, heating assistance, whatever, and further depriving the victims of capitalism’s necessary and unavoidably harmed, for a privileged few to subsume most of the benefits.

            Theocracy, as proxy used it here, is just more degenerate troll excrement. Progressives use religious points of view as positive examples of actual caring and generosity that are natural humanitarian law in a successful society, to be followed to maintain a peaceful, a free, content and happy populace.

            Religious views are not “theocracy.” And the resident troll is again pointing out NOTHING to anyone here other than his/her own stupidity or desperation to stop the inevitable changes that will reduce his/her perceived ability to exert control over others.

            • Denis Navratil says:

              Non, why do you refer to me as him/her? There are I understand 58 gender choices and you exclude virtually all of them when you describe me. It seems as if you are trying to “exclude the Other.”

              • nonquixote says:

                I easily explain your ridiculous attempt to magically transform and redefine Republican religious hypocrisy as Democratic opposition to theocracy, and instead of following up your prior laughable utterances with a defense or an apology or admission of a “mistake,” you might have inadvertently made, you follow your perfect path of harassment and nuisance trolling predictability.

                Who would have guessed (besides everyone reading here) you’d come back with some nonsensical attempted personal derision as your only response? Hmmmmmmm? Nothing about my comment, but a personal attack.

                I reserve using names/aliases for commentators for whom I have even an ounce of actual respect for.

              • EmmaR says:

                NonQ is merely pointing out that anyone can be masked by a handle. I would argue with my fellow Progressives that your presence has united the Progressive views here and you’ve marked the importance of this blog. You’d ignore the blog and us otherwise. Keep up the good work.

                • John Casper says:

                  EmmaR, thank you. I think you make a key point.

                • Denis Navratil says:

                  “NonQ is merely pointing out that anyone can be masked by a handle.”

                  Oh really? Do you think I am trying to mask my identity by using my real and full name? Or I am impersonating the real Denis Navratil, who coincidentally also owns a business in Racine. I would suggest a diagnosis if I were still in the profession. Wow, just wow.

                  Less crazy (not an official diagnosis) is your suggestion that I have united the “progressives” here. You are on less solid ground re the importance of the blog. I just enjoy taking on the arguments of the far left. Just a hobby. But if you know anyone willing to pay me….

                  Are the Koch brothers hiring?

                  • John Casper says:

                    Here’s a link to Denis Navatril in Racine https://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770

                    It doesn’t mention anything about being a Social Worker, graduating from Loyola University (IL), or this from last week.

                    “Denis Navratl (sic)
                    December 2, 2014 at 9:34 pm · Reply

                    I don’t like to toot my own horn, but since you are badgering….. my business relationships with hospitals throughout the midwest have generated in the neighborhood of $500 thousand for those hospitals. Prior to that, I worked at Catholic Charities as a caseworker for some of the children, mostly black, who survived the abortion/progressivism complex. Didn’t vote for President Obama, whom I consider to be a truly awful president, yet I can’t bring myself to employ the lefts favorite rhetorical technique, the ad hominem. No adoptions. Don’t support PP.

                    http://bloggingblue.com/2014/12/dpw-chair-mike-tate-wants-to-hear-from-you/

                    IMHO, what’s relevant from back on December 2 is that there’s no mention of the Social Worker cover story.

                    Why not tell us what you claim to have done to generate $500,000 for “hospitals throughout the midwest?” I’ve asked before, you just ignore the question. Why are you “hiding your light under a bushel basket?”

                    Here’s a little exchange we had back in November:

                    “John Casper
                    November 13, 2014 at 3:13 pm · Reply

                    Denis, what do you consider your areas of expertise?

                    Denis Navratil
                    November 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm · Reply

                    Logic, management, and I kick ass (sorry for the violent imagery non) in Pickleball. Why do you ask?”

                    Nothing about hospitals, Social Work, nor does it resemble what Denis in Racine wrote in his profile.

                    I don’t trust anything that comes out of your handle, because you can’t back anything up. You can’t even “manage” all the stories that you fabricate here at BB. No one else here volunteers information about themselves. You’re the only one.

                    • Nemo says:

                      Thanks Denis for a most entertaining thread. You are one or two days away from John commenting about you and the strawberries. I can almost read it now…

                      John Casper: Ahh, but the strawberries that’s… that’s where I had him. He laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with… geometric logic… that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I’d have produced that key if he hadn’t of pulled Blogging Blue out of action. I, I, I know now he was only trying to protect some fellow commenters…

                      Heh.

                    • John Casper says:

                      Nemo,

                      Did Denis tell you about the thread where he accused Zach of deleting his comments. Zach did some checking, turns out Denis can’t even spell his own handle, so they were getting locked up in moderation with other “new” commenters.

                  • EmmaR says:

                    Well, Denis, I don’t much think on your identity at all, really. Very strange though you actually think a diagnosis on an individual’s mental health may be made on the basis of reading internet comments. I wonder what such a practioner would make of you? Probably they’d say the joke’s on you. The past 18 months on this blog have been marked by bitter disagreement. But no more – again, thank you. You’re rotten at reasoning, logic and argument but your idiocy is useful here.

      • Duane12 says:

        Denis, these are moral pronouncements even if they were not made by the Catholic Church. Atheists can be moral as I discovered long ago employed by a business owner who was an atheist with a union shop.

        Morality is not limited to a Theocracy.

    • EmmaR says:

      Really good comment, Duane. Wisconsin’s bishops and priests would fill their their churches to the point of overflowing if they cut the crap and embraced Francis’ stances on transparency, economic and social justice, stewardship and tolerance. And what a reckoning some like Paul Ryan would be faced with – unless of course his faith is merely perfunctory.

      • Duane12 says:

        Thanks, Emma, for getting my point.

        Yes, it is about fairness, equality, sharing, justice, safety, and any other moral consideration where two entities are engaged in a collaborative effort.

        I believe in capitalism having seen it work successfully in moral terms, noted above, having been part of management in manufacturing and finance firms with and without a union.

  11. Ed Heinzelman says:

    I warned everyone about being civil and keeping a civil tongue in their keyboard and carrying on an adult conversation. Some of you are now on moderation and after the last few posts that number is likely to increase.

    I really don’t have time for this childishness.

    • Charles Kuehn says:

      Ed,

      The fellow who is posting as “Denis Navatril” and at least two other identities here has, by his repeated use of several key phrases (“Wow, just wow.”; “Seriously ___, get some help.”; “. . . so I will spell it out for you . . .”; others too numerous to mention), convinced me he is the same troll posting as “Jim Halpert” on the news site of WEAU TV, Eau Claire. I suggest going to http://www.weau.com/home and clicking on, among others, any story containing “Walker” in its title. Read any/all comments by Mr. “Halpert.” You will see what I mean.

      This individual also posts under several dozen other names on WEAU’s site, creating a slightly different personality for each, and while his phrasing here is closest to that of Mr. “Halpert,” the signature tone of disrespect and his straw man tactics are readily discernible as coming from the same individual. I’m assuming you can see my email address; if you want a list of the other names this individual uses on WEAU, email me and I will reply with one.

      In my opinion, removing this guy from this blog would be beneficial to all concerned. His presence here over the past week or so has gotten you all pretty riled up. I submit that you cannot win an argument with this individual. He will just continue to insult you, divert the discussion, and avoid directly addressing your comments. Please bid him adieu. Thank you.

      • John Casper says:

        Nemo,

        Is Denis really Jim Halpert of Eau Claire? Denis claimed you as a friend on a BB thread in October and you confirmed it.

        “Nemo
        October 11, 2014 at 10:20 am

        John, what Denis stated is correct. I was banished (Banished I tells ya!) for kay’s Blue Racine a few years ago for questioning the left’s commitment to free speech. I have never been on the payroll of the Bradley Foundation nor have I defended Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction though I was appalled that Sports Illustrated writer Peter King hailed it as the “Greatest Super Bowl of all time.” I would point out to Mr King that, First, the Packers were not playing, and second, the Packers were not playing. Nuf said.

        I do concur with you about blogs being non-protected speech, but banishing a commenter for pointing out a flaw in the logic or premise of a post displays the weakness of that post and, more critically, the poster. If a commenter is being abusive, nasty, or otherwise impeding the furthering of a line of thought then a “time out” is more than called for, but just the weakest blogs banish a commenter just when the argument is getting good. That being said, I would like to thank Zach for keeping this blog interesting and allowing well spoken dissent (hey Denis!). ”

        http://bloggingblue.com/2014/10/u-s-supreme-court-blocks-implementation-of-wisconsin-voter-id-law/

        Nemo, Dead End Denis/Jake appears to have volunteered the name of a person actually living in Wisconsin, (Denis Navratil in Racine) as a way to perpetrate his fraud. Anyone can call Mr. Navratil in Racine and ask what he thinks of Jake pretending to be him on a Milwaukee blog. That conversation might be newsworthy. Per your October statements, you know the person behind the Denis Navratil handle at BB.

        • Denis Navratil says:

          Hey, there is an idea John. You appear to be spending a great deal of time and energy trying to prove that I am not Denis Navratil. If I was even the slightest bit influenced by the thinking, such that it is, here at BB, I would be in the midst of a full blown identity crisis. Am I male? Female? Other? Trying to eliminate the Other? Am I Jim Halpert? Am I Jake? Do I “own” a business? Do I have a MSW from Loyola? Am I from Racine or Eau Claire? My head is spinning.

          Someone (how about John Casper, lead conspiracist) should call this Denis Navratil person (home phone listed, easily located retail business) and let him know that someone out there is making him sound like a very intelligent, compassionate, tolerant Burke-ian liberal.

          Hi Nemo!

          • John Casper says:

            Denis Navratil, you wrote: “Hey, there is an idea John. You appear to be spending a great deal of time and energy trying to prove that I am not Denis Navratil.”

            Nope. I use Google and it doesn’t take any time at all. When you volunteer information about yourself, it sticks out like a sore thumb. For obvious reasons, no one else does it. For example, your claim that you generated about $500,000 for “midwest” hospitals was obviously bogus and self-serving. I just plugged “Denis Navratil blogging blue midwest” into a search and Google’s search engine takes me right to the thread. Then I do a “find” on your name or a word I remember from your claim. It couldn’t be faster or simpler.

            Denis wrote: “If I was even the slightest bit influenced by the thinking, such that it is, here at BB, I would be in the midst of a full blown identity crisis.”

            For someone who claims not to be influenced by BB, you certainly spend a lot of time here.

            I’ve asked this before and you’ve ignored the question. What local, state, and national blogs would you recommend? Which do you find superior to BB?

            Denis wrote: “Am I male? Female? Other?”

            I don’t care. Given your condescending attitude, I doubt anyone else here does either. Such gender flexibility from you, however, is interesting. What’s your position on marriage equality? If you find it helpful, your current handle easily morphs into Denise Navratil.

            FWIW, my guess is that you’re male.

            Denis wrote: “Trying to eliminate the Other?

            I have no idea what this means.

            Denis wrote: “Am I Jim Halpert?”

            Charles Kuehn made a very compelling argument. I would encourage you to consider the timing of Nemo’s first comment on this thread. It looks like Charles hit a nerve and you frantically ran to Nemo for support. Then to distract, Nemo goes after my comment. Likewise, I would encourage you to consider the fact that your initial response after Charles’ comment is to me. I take that as a sign that you and Nemo consider Charles’ information to be the much more serious threat to your handle’s viability at BB. And you have no response.

            FWIW, I don’t think your handle has any viability at BB. As I’ve stated before, among your other deficiencies, you’re lazy and undisciplined. You couldn’t even be bothered to settle on one cover story and stick to it.

            Denis wrote: “Am I Jake?”

            I would encourage you to consider that the mere fact that you ask the question may have serious implications. Proxy servers can be used to pretend to be others on a blog. This is all speculation, but my take away is that you and and Nemo and the folks behind you have discussed ways to discredit loyal BB commenters by using a proxy server to post messaging which is completely at odds with their comment history.

            I sincerely hope I’m wrong about that.

            Denis wrote: “Do I “own” a business?”

            Unless you count a sole proprietorship that bills wingnut organizations to comment on blogs across the country, my guess is “no.” If you owned a business that really generated enough revenue to employ people, you’d be spending your time on that. You’ve also demonstrated no subject matter proficiency consistent with the core competency demands of running a small business. You have to have specific skills that folks want to buy and you don’t appear to have any of those. If you did own a business, it would be natural for you to disclose its name. That free advertising might lead to more customers, which could lead to more sales.

            I see the repeating of the claim, that you own a small business, to be rhetorical short cut you want to take to establishing your superiority over other commenters, who don’t volunteer information about themselves.

            A “Denis Navratil” in Wisconsin may own a small business. If that’s the case, it further escalates concerns that you and Nemo have gone to some effort to create a false blog personna, that’s unique to Blogging Blue, but based on a REAL identity. While there may not be a law against that, it certainly raises ethical questions in addition to being pretty bizarre.

            Denis wrote: “Do I have a MSW from Loyola?”

            A “Denis Navratil” may have an MSW from Loyola (IL). I’ve seen nothing from you to suggest the kind of intelligence and dedication, however, to preserve through the process to completion. The fact that you don’t recall what year you graduated further discredits you. If you were paying that kind of tuition, you’d definitely remember.

            Denis wrote: “Am I from Racine or Eau Claire?”

            Not sure if he’s set up to do it, but as far as I know, if Zach wanted to, he could disclose the location (city) of the IP address you use. As you so often do, you raised the issue.

            Denis wrote: “My head is spinning.”

            I believe that. You and Nemo clearly have a lot invested in the Denis Navratil handle at BB. I don’t understand why you don’t start again with some other handle, but clearly there’s resistance on your side to doing that.

            Denis wrote: “Someone (how about John Casper, lead conspiracist) should call this Denis Navratil person (home phone listed, easily located retail business) and let him know that someone out there is making him sound like a very intelligent, compassionate, tolerant Burke-ian liberal.

            In the strongest possible terms, I would very strenuously caution you about using a real identity for your handle, if that person is not you. If anything were to happen to the property of someone, whose name, you illegitimately brought to BB and represented as your own, you would be at the top of the suspect list.

            Denis wrote: “Hi Nemo!”

            Nemo is clearly higher up the food chain than you. I doubt he revisits this thread, but if he does, I’ll be very interested in his response.

            • Charles Kuehn says:

              Interesting, about the existence of a real “Denis Navatril.” It wouldn’t be without precedent. This individual, for a few weeks earlier this year, when posting on WEAU’s site, was using “Graeme” as one of his handles. He even included a stock photo of Mr. Zielinski as his avatar. Bizarre indeed.

              • John Casper says:

                Charles, thanks again.

              • Denis Navratil says:

                Charles, a real sleuth might contact the real “Denis Navratil” and ask him whether he blogs at BB. Or you could continue to peddle increasingly far fetched notions about multiple blogging identities. But I guess the latter is more fun.

                • John Casper says:

                  Denis, thanks for confirming that you are NOT the “real” Denis Navratil.

                  • Charles Kuehn says:

                    John and group,

                    Not only did “Denis” just confirm that he’s not the real Denis Navatril, in that same post he confirmed for anybody familiar with WEAU’s site that he is indeed also “Graeme,” “The Strawman,” “Awaiting Moderation,” “Comment Deleted,” “Captain Deficit,” and several others. The phrasing and tone are unmistakable.

                    • Denis Navratil says:

                      And yet the only way to confirm my identity once and for all would be to talk to me over the phone or in person. I am not hiding nor have I been for the entire 48 years of my existence. My sources tell me that the real Denis Navratil is, at this very moment, watching the Packers game at his house, the phone # to which is listed. Or is that just too much trouble Charles?

                    • Charles Kuehn says:

                      Definitely I seem to be hitting a nerve center with this joker – here as in the other venue. Ed, Zach, it’s high time to shanghai this character – all several of his AKAs – outta here. He has made the WEAU blog literally uninhabitable. Let’s not allow him to do that here. Oh, he’ll whine that we’re stifling differing viewpoints, but that isn’t what’s going on here. This has everything to do with an utter disrespectful, baiting, dissembling refusal to engage in meaningful discussion. No more, no less. In the immortal words of John Hiatt: “Gone.” The sooner the better.

                    • Denis Navratil says:

                      Yes Charles, I agree that blogs are literally uninhabitable, but you can’t blame that on me, er Denis. Keep this identity nonsense going Charles as you and your Denis-deniers are making total fools of your selves, per usual.

                • John Casper says:

                  Denis,

                  Has anyone taken up your offer to call the “real” Denis?

                  Why won’t Nemo call him?

                  “Wow. Just Wow.”

                  Why don’t you call the “real” Denis? Ask him to comment here as the “real Denis Navratil.” Then, he can confirm that you’re the fake Denis Navratril. #winwin

                  “Stop the identity nonsense now!”

                  • Charles Kuehn says:

                    A few months back “Denis,” commenting on WEAU as under one of his well’known handles, challenged me to meet him at a local watering hole to “compare pay stubs” – presumably to settle the question of which of us is more successful. This after having told me he was “. . . a retired muti-millionaire who had started and sold several small businesses . . .” (pay stubs?), and after he had been told that I am certainly retired (again, pay stubs?). I replied that I am in the local phone directory and that he should call me and we would indeed meet up. I’m still waiting for that call. Sound familiar? Yep, same guy (who, not surprisingly, can’t keep track of what he’s posted under which of his numerous handles).

                    • John Casper says:

                      Charles, thanks.

                      Of the many things that stand out about Denis, two that imho are the most frequent include his condescending tone and extreme willingness to “play the victim card.”

                    • Denis Navratil says:

                      Sorry Charles, wasn’t me. I am not interested in your pay (or other) stubs.

                    • John Casper says:

                      Sorry Denis, I don’t believe you.

                      “Wow. Just wow.”

                    • Charles Kuehn says:

                      “Grow up,” Strawman. You’ve been definitively outed. “Deal with it.” “Face it.” The best thing you can do at this point is stay on WEAU where you can trade insults with The Collin and The Unknown Liberal – and where lip service from management notwithstanding, you’re in less danger of being banned. You’re way out of your league here.

        • Dohnal says:

          I am on the pay roll of the Wisconsin Conservative Digest, funded by the Koch bros. Geo Soros and Buffett. We get over million per year. The average person just gets screwed by unions with higher prices and worse service. Why should we want them?

          • nonquixote says:

            More completely unsupported rhetoric, I and no one else reading here needs to hear your totally fact-free pronouncements.

            So are you also FOR getting rid of all private sector unions and all public safety worker unions who were not affected by ACT 10?

            If so why?

            • Dohnal says:

              Unions are passee, they have lived off the rest of our wallets forever. People are not interested in them anymore, they move too often.
              Why should public employees get better salaries, pensions, health, dental, vacations, days off, holidays, sick days and can jerk us off and never get fired?? We cannot do that.

              • Ed Heinzelman says:

                The real question is why doesn’t everyone get those things…you are going about this all wrong…instead of taking them away from public employees…you should be demanding them for yourself and your peers.

                • Charles Kuehn says:

                  Exactly, Ed, we need to be marching inexorably upward instead of running a race to the bottom. A rising tide should raise all boats. Unfortunately, as the system is now designed (and currently being even more tightly rigged), only the yachts feel the lift.

                  • Dohnal says:

                    No one gets that anymore and am tired of public employees misusing their little power to be jerks when you talk or work with them plus pus my property taxes from $600 to $6000. So do nto try me with your stupid BS.
                    Out taxes pushed all the manufacturers over seas.

                    • Ed Heinzelman says:

                      It really would be more interesting if you could write a complete sentence every once in a while. And could you maybe use spell check?

                    • Dohnal says:

                      Didnt think left cpuld spell. Not owrht my time.

                    • nonquixote says:

                      Our taxes providing a rail spur to Sen Ron Johnson’s father-in-law’s business PACUR is what you are against, then? Too high taxes allowed that special carve-out for a particular private corporation to benefit from.

                      How about the state paying for the health and disability insurance for the Huber Law laborers that PACUR has hired extensively over the decades? Our tax dollars should go to supporting the private profits of any particular corporation?

                      That’s OK, but forcing Union shops to represent freeloading workers who won’t join the Union, in say something like an unfair employee termination dispute, is what you are for? Federal law requires the Union to represent the free-loader currently and also if RTW is instituted.

                      Pushed ALL our manufacturers overseas, and you have a “sweet,” deal for my investment firm on buying Miller Park, just sign here, right?

                    • Dohnal says:

                      Really stupid arguments

                    • nonquixote says:

                      Bobby,

                      Ah yes, those public employees that are required to follow the law and adhere to certain procedures and the fact that you might even have to take a number and wait in a queue with “regular citizens,” now that the state Republi-cons have made cuts to shared revenue with counties that prevents local governments from hiring adequate numbers of staff, can really be a pain in the wazzooo. Take away $6K from any one of their previous salaries and you just aren’t seeing the enthusiasm anymore, are you?

                      Tough to function when you are treated as an equal isn’t it? So beneath your elite station in life and all. Did one person in particular refuse a bribe from you to buy you special access? Sucks, doesn’t it, when your needs and your precious time are no more important than that of the luckless rabble you unfortunately might have to mingle with.

                      No doubt those particular workers are also familiar with your extreme courtesy and good manners, certainly equal to those which you have displayed in this comment section.

                    • Dohnal says:

                      really stupid comments and I like to be called Bobby,my dad did.

                    • nonquixote says:

                      Oh Bobber,

                      I had forgotten to ask, since ACT 10 action against public employee unions, I just don’t get how you could be complaining about your taxes since Walker’s move there has saved you so much money. Here you are complaining, when we should be hearing, “happy days are here again.”

                      What’z up with that, I’m detecting a bit of incongruity with your whining.

                    • Charles Kuehn says:

                      Here’s another marker that identifies this joker: Throughout most of the day – and he’s present on the internet all day every day (he even put in an appearance on Uppity Wisconsin a few days back) – his spelling and grammar are pretty good, even if the logic and rhetoric come up short. But here and on WEAU, as the day turns into evening and evening turns into night, the writing skills deteriorate at a predictable rate (somebody mentioned alcohol a couple days back?).

          • EmmaR says:

            C’mon Dohnal, views worth evangelizing must be worth defending. You have yet to argue a single winger talking point – you offer no sources nor facts here. Don’t you have even a single fact to offer to support your views? If not, why bother holding them?

      • John Casper says:

        Charles, thanks very much.

  12. John Casper says:

    Link below is from economist L. Randall Wray, Ph.D. He quotes Sen. Sanders 12 Step plan to restore prosperity and then responds. I just posted the relevant part about unions, but I would recommend the whole thing.

    A TWELVE STEP PROGRAM TO RESTORE PROSPERITY: THE BERNIE SANDERS PLAN

    “4.) Union workers who are able to collectively bargain for higher wages and benefits earn substantially more than non-union workers. Today, corporate opposition to union organizing makes it extremely difficult for workers to join a union. We need legislation which makes it clear that when a majority of workers sign cards in support of a union, they can form a union.

    Agreed. Eliminate the barriers to unionization. Capitalism is a rigged game, giving far too much power to the undertakers. As J.K. Galbraith argued long ago, unions are a necessary second leg to the countervailing powers stool. The third leg, of course, is government. But our government’s leg is hanging on by a thin thread. If anything, unions need more power today than they had in the early postwar period because our government is practically impotent.”

    http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/12/twelve-step-program-restore-prosperity-bernie-sanders-plan.html

    Dr. Wray is an American for prosperity!

  13. Anon says:

    Chris Kapenga is from Delafield, not Brookfield.

  14. Duane12 says:

    For a moment, let us return to a similar time of union hating in Act 10 when Walker was implementing his “Divide & Conquer” strategy under false premises blaming unions, at least in part,for rough times and another voice was urging unity in, “Statement Regarding the Rights of Workers and the Value of Unions” on February 16, 2011
    http://www.archmil.org/News/StatementRegardingtheRightsofW.htm

    The statement was made by the Most Reverend Jerome Listecki, archbishop of Milwaukee and president of the Wisconsin Catholic Conference. http://www.archmil.org/News/StatementRegardingtheRightsofW.htm

    Archbishop Listecki was and is enabled in his defense of unions by the following: “Catholic social teachings supports the rights of workers to choose whether to organize, join a union, and bargain collectively, and to exercise these rights without reprisal…Workers, owners, employers, and unions should work together to create decent jobs, build a more just economy,and advance the common good.” (Framing Consciences for Faithful Citizenship U.S. Catholic Bishops, 2007)

    I will make no other comment or conclusion at this time except to say I have a feeling of “deja vu” on right to work legislation and that that many if not most Catholics hear only the constant clatter of cymbal and cries that “abortion” is the great issue of the day according to the phony pro-lifers who believe in bombing clinics and murdering its doctors.

  15. Denis Navratil says:

    John Casper writes: “If anything were to happen to the property of someone, whose name, you illegitimately brought to BB and represented as your own, you would be at the top of the suspect list.”

    Why would something “happen” to my property because of my participation on Blogging Blue?

    Zach, it appears as though John Casper has made a threat to property that I own. Should something happen to my property because of any deranged individuals here at BB, I trust that you have the decency to help law enforcement solve the crime, our political differences aside. This is a serious question Zach. If my property is damaged in any way, can I count on you to side with me and the police over lawbreaking progressives?

    • John Casper says:

      Denis,

      If you sincerely think anyone has threatened you or your property, isn’t the appropriate response to call 911?

      If you’re not going to contact law enforcement about your concerns, please explain why.

  16. ® Steve says:

    Right to work will be law

    Workers will be free from the forced democrat scam that is the union

    The blue fisters here will cry and throw another temper tantrum. But it won’t do a dang thing. Embrace hope and change, it’s finally free from your crushing grip.

    • John Casper says:

      Way to go Trademark, cheering on the new “NAFTA on steroids,” aka the Trans Pacific Partnership, which will further erode Wisconsin’s manufacturing base.

      • Dohnal says:

        Our manufacturing left cause of obnoxious union leaders like Briggs/Stratton, oppressive taxes and the world has changed. Buchanan warned us and we could have take measures to keep our manufacturing but just like Wisconsin public unions they pushed it till they were making so much more than the average guy that they turned on them and now they are whining. Go to it guys on RTW.

        • John Casper says:

          Sorry Dohnal, Briggs&Stratton are not union leaders.

          RTStarve has nothing to do with FEDERAL taxes about which you’re exactly correct. “(Federal) Taxes For Revenue Are Obsolete” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-mosler/taxes-for-revenue-are-obs_b_542134.html

          So why aren’t Republicans bringing back the FULL holiday on BOTH SIDES of the payroll tax?

          After that, you cut federal income taxes and federal corporate taxes for the 99%.

          State and local government taxes are the only hedge we have against Washington, D.C. They can’t issue their own currency, so are dependent on what revenue they can raise.

          If you get demand-pull inflation (too many dollars chasing too few goods) very doubtful, that’s when you raise federal taxes. That’s their purpose, to help manage aggregate demand. They are not needed to fund the federal government.

          Instead your guys (and Dems) both keep acting as though we’re on the gold standard.

      • Charles Kuehn says:

        Same guy, another new name.

        Seriously, Ed and Zack, it’s really past time for this guy to go.

  17. Ed Heinzelman says:

    You guys are simply hilarious…I don’t know how you do it…all day…how do you have the time? the energy? None of you is gainfully employed? If any of you need a writing sample to get a gig writing for a reality TV show, send them here!

    And I want to thank all of you for sending our page views through the roof. I suggested to Zach that we raise our advertising rates and finally put the Blogging Blue structural deficit to rest.

    So who’s afraid a few conservative commenters are going to blow up the blog? I would suggest that both sides of the aisle did a pretty good job of doing exactly that the past few days. Naming calling, arguments over paychecks, real vs alias, denizens of this that or the other blog site, pages of bible quotes, off topic nonsense that I can’t even believe, conspiracy theories that would put Donald Trump to shame…I am not proud of very many of you.

    I approved all of the NQ comments under my moderation for this line of ‘conversation’. To omit them at this point leaves the timeline incomplete..

    There are a couple of vile posts on here that I am letting stand, although I originally had deleted them. I didn’t approve the death threats or other vile stuff that also appeared in the moderation queue

    You don’t want someone to blow the place up? Don’t engage them…

    But really, I can’t believe what a bunch of whiners you have turned out to be this week. At this point I am considering having all of my posts run without comments or put all comments for my posts on moderation.

    • EmmaR says:

      I tend to agree that the winger trools (I made that obvious typo and then decided it’s apt) shouldn’t be banned but here’s the other side. I can’t think of another dynamic, free online space for Progressive Wisconsin politics where Progressives can interact/discuss. This was a good one because your articles are interesting, applicable statewide and lean less towards the hysterical (I’m thinking of Cog Dis here). And because of that you draw those of us from other parts of the state where we lack opportunities to interact in person with other Progressives. For example, in NE WI it’s mostly Centrists/neo-lib’s so if you remark on the unfairness of a financial system that pits teachers in California against steel workers in Ohio, you get deer-in-headlights. But on this blog if one of us mentions, Timken, everyone knows what that means and can actually discuss. Maybe it’s not always amicable but that is likely what is lost by letting the trools run free.

    • Jake formerly of the LP says:

      Hey Ed, if you want these losers to pollute the board with their off-topic flaming and idiocy, that’s your right. But it’s not improving the quality of what’s on here.

      This is a problem with a lot of us on the left. We’re too tolerant of people, and many of us still naively think the Dohnals and Denises of the world can be taught something, so we waste time explaining while they’re shreiking. They can’t learn- they would be the whiny righty clingers that they are if they had any ability to reflect and evaluate new information that might challenge them. That’s why I just rip em and clown em. That’s the level of respect they deserve.

      And when they’re clearly being off-topic and obnoxious, I don’t put up with any of it. Of course, I moderate comments and require login info, so it’s a nice way to keep the regressive trash out. They usually don’t have the guts to show up in that situation, and it allows me to keep things on track. I’d recommend that for you as well.

    • nonquixote says:

      Thanks for putting up with us Ed.

      It really doesn’t take much time to slap some logic into a couple of short paragraphs, keeps my fingers limber for re-vamping proposals, change orders and work-orders and pulling up my boot straps. Notice the two intelligent responses I just drew up thread. Incidentally, (bringing this back to the topic) with ALL manufacturing having left the state, I guess I’ll just stop sending my “union dues,” to the WMC.

      Over half the electorate didn’t just disappear because 70% of the US population believes that they have no say in the political or economic policy in our country anymore and just stay home. A little more austerity forced upon us and them and there will be renewed citizen activism.

      Now if someone would be able to pull me out of total moderation, I’ve got two posts over at Steve C’s that are on topic and a day old already.

    • Charles Kuehn says:

      Ed,

      I’m not afraid that a few conservatives are going to blow up the blog. I think most of us here would welcome and enjoy some civil discussion from and with a few denizens of the other side. But what we have here is a recent infestation from one individual using several names, who shouts us down, insults us, and flatly refuses to address the points we make. This guy is not a conservative blogger. He is a troll whose sole purpose (I don’t believe in
      “paid trolls”) is to rile up the membership here and derail any chance of cogent discussion. He is doing it purely for his own amusement. And as I’ve noted, this is not his only playground. This individual, over the past two years, has utterly destroyed another blog (WEAU) that was once upon a time a fun and informative place to trade ideas and disagreements. I don’t want to see that happen here. I’ve enjoyed being a part of this usually very civil board for too long. Get rid of this guy by whatever means you have available and I promise you’ll see the end of what this thread has turned into and which you find understandably distressing. Thanks for putting up with us.

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