19 thoughts on “Sunday Open Thread

  1. I’m still laughing at Peggy West giving the term Cheesehead a whole new meaning. Unfortuantely, she STILL doesn’t understand the problem. It is NOT the LENGTH of the border, but the AMOUNT of illegal people and drugs crossing and the violence they are bringing.

    Perhaps someone should send “Miss Peggy” a link to this site:

    What a cheesehead she is!

    1. Unfortuantely, she STILL doesn’t understand the problem. It is NOT the LENGTH of the border, but the AMOUNT of illegal people and drugs crossing and the violence they are bringing.

      Really, it’s not that either. The realproblem is that elected officials who clearly don’t know WTF they are talking about, should keep their mouths shut and not implement things in our name, with our money. She doesn’t know Arizona actually borders Mexico…any time spent educating herself on the issue would have prevented this. I’ll eat my hat if she’s actually read AZ 1070. And that was a very short bill that one could read in it’s entirety over the course of a cup of coffee. How many politicians actually read the healthcare reform bill they passed? If more than 1 out of 5 ready any of it or 1 out 20 read it all, I’d be shocked. Or any of the bills they vote for?

      Nope – instead Republicans form their opinion and make their arguments using the “talking points” and arguments they get from their side, Democrats from the “talking points” and arguments from their side. Limbaugh says, “the bill is about A,B, and C” and Maddow says, “the bill is about X,Y, and Z” and their minions, the useful idiots – convinced they’ve done the research and educated themselves on the topic – carry on arguing the “facts” which are not remotely so.

    1. Yeah, it seems like we need to level the playing field so that brick and mortar businesses can compete with the likes of Amazon.com and other internet retailers.

        1. It’s not remotely that simple – and I’m sure you know that. Where does an internet transaction take place:
          The residence of the person clicking the purchase button?
          The location of the computer they’re using – it might not be their home?
          The location of the company selling the item? Which location, could be dozens.
          The location of the host server which could be in a different state or even country?

          And if you feel like you’ve resolved those issues as far as what is fair, you have the fact that sales taxes are levied by states, counties and even cities so have fun actually implementing it – the overhead of the administration will be a huge headache and costly.

          This really can be boiled down to two options:

          If you collect sales tax on the companies selling, they’ll move to a municipality which does not have sales tax. Or they’ll spin off their internet division into a separate company located in a favorable location. FAIL

          If you collect sales tax on the purchaser, you are putting an unfair burden on the online retails as the administration of assessing, collecting and paying sales tax on probably thousands of taxing authorities. FAIL

          1. It isn’t remotely that simple which is why the various states are working on simplifing the rates and what merchandise and services are taxable.

            The article states that there are 7,000 sales tax jurisdictions in the country. And their rules are all different. Different taxable vs non taxable items, purchase thresholds where taxes start to come into play, caps where taxes aren’t collectable after a given dollar amount, and worse.

            But the issue hasn’t anything to do with where the server is, where the computer is, where the buyer or seller is. Sales and Use taxes are very specific. It is the address where the merchandise is delivered that determines which sales tax authority has jurisdiction.

        2. No Zach, I support the government getting out of our lives. I support who ever is going to sell me what I want at the cheapest price with the best service. If a brick and mortar retailer is a little more expensive but offers far superior service then likely I would do business with them. If they offer no additional service and have higher prices then I will go with Amazon.

          I owe nothing to the brick and mortar small business but if they want my $$ they better learn how to compete.

      1. Read something for once and just for a moment try to understand it…this isn’t about MORE taxes…this is about collecting existing taxes. But along with your small govt maxim, being a tax scoff law is ok too?

        1. Maybe you should do a bit of reading Ed and check your own ignorance before calling some one a “scoff law.” The moratorium on internet taxes was extended through 2014 (with the House passing the Senate’s bill, something like 400-0).

          So nobody is required to pay taxes on internet purchases at least until 2014.

          1. Actually this is one area where I know what I am talking about having been a projet manager on a sales tax system for a national retailer who got nailed big time on the east coast for not properly collecting and remitting sales taxes.

            The law absolves sellers from having to collect sales taxes in tax jurisdictions where they do not have a physical presence which is legally referred to as nexus.

            The buyer is required by law to pay the taxes to his local sales tax authority. These are generally referred to as use taxes since they are a tax for acquiring and useing something and the rates are generally identical to the sales tax. This is usually done via a line item on the state income tax form and is purely voluntary and largely unenforcable since how do you prove that someone bought something out of state. See the Wisconsin income tax form you filed for 2009 to see the line is there.

            These laws are fully in effect and apply equally to mail orders, phone orders and internet orders. If YOU had read the article I posted you would understand that.

            Now, the internet sales tax moratorium applies to new internet services like the monthly fee from your ISP or cable provider. It applies to new goods and services directly related to providing internet access and connnectivity. It was passed to prevent stifling development of the internet. It has nothing to do with purchasing existing goods and services.

        2. Ed,

          I did read the article. People complaining about online companies not collecting sales taxes. See the issue is people like you and your progressive friends think in terms of how we can take money from people who earn it and give it to people to do not. Conservatives think people should be left alone to compete on their own merit.

          Why wouldn’t you support the small business owner paying fewer income taxes or also not collect sales tax so they could compete with Amazon. I and the majority of Americans will buy from who ever has the cheapest price with the best service. If that is the local business owner or Amazon, I don’t care.

          1. So don’t like the small local business owner to have a level playing field. You don’t care if they go out of business and locally we lose another dozen or more jobs?

            I am not talking about instituting new taxes. I am talking about collecting taxes rightfully due under current tax laws and I bet my liberal and progressive friends aren’t the only dudes and dudettes that passed Wisconsin sales taxes and want to see the revenues due the various states and counties collected.

            1. Ed, Dude and Dudettes;

              You are so close here…I’m very proud of you!! If sales tax is a possible DIS-INCENTATIVE to make a purchase, because it increases the price of a product. It means some people will choose to purchase a product based on that issue alone. Including Cigarettes. (Many cigarettes are now purchased at Indian gaming facilities and outposts, around the country, to avoid the huge taxes piled on at state and federal levels).

              So if you follow the logic…..c’mon keep up..we’re almost there….Elimination of ALL Sales taxes in Wisconsin would make our state a MAGNET for retail and other business! Including high tech, high paying business like Online companies, both home based and Brick and Mortar, types. With equal footing for each company. We could go one step further and institute a non collect rule for Wisconsin based business. If a business is within the walls of Wisconsin we will not enforce collection of other taxing authorities around the country for Sales Tax! We would have to build a Wall to keep out business in stead of illegals!! Then imagine the competition around the country in response to our policy.. a logical move would be the rapid reduction and elimination of sales taxes all around the country. Govt.s would have to right size in response to our new reality, property values, and personal wealth and individual freedom would blossom.. OK I’m getting a tear!!!….

              I know your asking yourself….”but what about the money”…where do we get the rest of the money, we’d have increased revenue from improved income tax collected by increasing numbers of employed people, increased shipping, and most importantly increasing numbers of small business folks..who are the engine that drives everything in America! Furthermore cuts and savings with less folks dependent on Govt assistance. Structural cuts of extraneous jobs and realistic compensation of our State, County and local employees, will save about 15% or more almost immediately. Re-structuring of Union contracts can save even more.

              I realize you won’t be able to micro-manage your fellow citizen, like with Progressivism; but hey; certainly some of the new wealthy class will be willing to donate to your Co-op’s and contribute money to build your bike paths, or even buy condoms for you to hand-out! All WITHOUT GOVT. MONEY!!

  2. Just a little background on Wisconsin Sales Tax:

    History and development:
    • Wisconsin was late in adopting a sales tax, enacting it in 1962 after about forty
    other states had already done so.
    • The original rate in 1962 was 3%. It went to 4% in 1969 and to 5% in 1982. The
    rate has not changed since then, 27 years.
    • Counties may enact a sales tax up to 0.5%. Sixty-one (of 72) counties have it.
    • There are four special sales tax zones with additional rates: Miller Park (baseball),
    0.1%; Lambeau Field (football), 0.5%; Midwest Center in Milwaukee (“local
    exposition center”), and Wisconsin Dells (“premier resort area”).

    • Technically, it is called the sales and use tax. But the “use tax” is a technical term
    relating to some out-of-state purchases. It’s easiest just to say “sales tax.”
    • In 2000, a state surplus led to a sales-tax rebate to taxpayers of $688 million.
    • Retailers keep 0.5% of sales tax collections to cover their costs.
    Comparisons with other states:
    • Wisconsin is a low sales-tax state, according to the most recent Census Bureau
    data (2006):
    o Wisconsin’s 5% rate is lower than the rate in 27 other states.
    o Wisconsin’s rate is lower than all its neighbors: Illinois, 6.25%; Iowa
    6.0%; Minnesota 6.875%; Michigan 6.0%.
    o Twenty-eight percent of total revenue for Wisconsin state and local
    government came from sales tax, 37th highest among the states.
    o Total sales tax revenue was 2.3% of state total income, 33rd highest among
    the states.
    • Wisconsin is generally in line with neighboring states in terms of what is subject
    to the tax and what is not, with these exceptions:
    o Iowa taxes many more services than does Wisconsin
    o Illinois taxes groceries and prescription medicines, which Wisconsin
    doesn’t
    o Minnesota exempts clothing, which Wisconsin taxes

    Institute for Wisconsin’s Future—www.wisconsinsfuture.org—July 2009

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