I meant to post this sooner, but I think it’s still worth a read. Over at Eye on Wisconsin, Cory Liebmann posted an excellent open letter to Milwaukee County Democrats regarding “some of the over-the-top and toxic rhetoric flying back and forth between various friends and allies” of his. Here’s Cory’s open letter, followed by my own thoughts.
So I suppose I’m going to take heat from friends on both sides for this and maybe I’ll even lose work (which I certainly can’t afford). But could everyone please just try to take it down one notch?
I’ve been increasingly troubled by some of the over-the-top and toxic rhetoric flying back and forth between various friends and allies of mine. I know exactly how divisive this highly controversial Milwaukee County legislation was but none of us are helped by making permanent mortal enemies out of longtime partners and friends. I just don’t see who wins in that scenario besides Republicans…and perhaps that was part of the plan in the first place.
I think I’ve been fairly clear that I’ve opposed the legislation to undermine the Milwaukee County Board and I’ve been vehemently opposed to the manner in which that goal was accomplished. So I don’t have a problem with engaging in an aggressive and sometimes angry battle and debate with friends but it has seemed to go well beyond that point. Some of the rhetoric has been downright ridiculous and I was hoping it would pass eventually. But it seems to be migrating from that issue to every other issue now.
The County Board does X and all sorts of personal and absurd allegations and name calling is launched by this group. Abele, his admin and allies do Y and all manor of venom is cast in their direction. Again, I’m not saying that we can’t vehemently disagree on some very important issues but it seems to be going well past that point. The concern that I’m trying to express here is not really for the entities at the center of this but more for all the genuinely good people caught in between.
I’m certainly not asking everyone to join arms and sing Kumbaya after a heated battle but I’m hoping that we are not doing long-term or permanent damage right now. There will be a time when many of us will have to team up again in some larger fight. I’m hoping that we are still capable of doing that after all of this is said and done. And that is exactly why I’m asking my friends, allies and fellow Milwaukee County Democrats to consider taking some of the rhetoric down one notch while at the same time vigorously standing up for what you believe. I think it really is possible to do both…or am I just being naive?
As I shared in the comments section of Cory’s original entry, the problem described in Cory’s open letter isn’t going to get any better when we have some on the left who seem to have designated themselves as the arbiters of who’s progressive, pro-union, etc. and then see fit to commence with personal attacks on those who don’t share their exact views on specific issues.
I’ve long held that mature, reasonable people can agree (sometimes very passionately) without hating each other, and while I may not agree with some folks when it comes to certain issues, I don’t bear those folks the same kind of animus they seem to harbor towards those who don’t share their views.
The kinds of personal attacks, name calling, negativity, and hypocrisy I’ve witnessed from some on the left is shameful, petty, and disappointing, moreso because I thought we were all grown up enough to have heated and passionate discussions/debates without needing to get personal about things.
Is this irony:
“As I shared in the comments section of Cory’s original entry, the problem described in Cory’s open letter isn’t going to get any better when we have some on the left who seem to have designated themselves as the arbiters of who’s progressive, pro-union, etc. and then see fit to commence with personal attacks on those who don’t share their exact views on specific issues.”
Why is it irony? Pointing out bad behavior isn’t the same as engaging in it.
Because he is one of the worst offenders.
“Because he is one of the worst offenders” writes Stan, without providing anything to back up his claim.
Ultimately “Stan” is entitled to his opinion, but I don’t put much stock in anything written by someone who hides behind a pseudonym, because it’s easy to pass judgment while hiding behind a keyboard.
Zach/Cory,
This is what’s known as an “innocent fraud.”
Sure, everyone mouths support for civility, but the facts are that the US middle class is ranked #27.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-23/how-does-america%E2%80%99s-middle-class-rank-globally-27
Any Democrat or Republican who is NOT talking about THAT should be kicked-out of office.
It’s not a RED BLUE issue, it’s a CAPITALISM issue. It’s the laws of Supply and DEMAND. Right now there’s no DEMAND.
Abele, Barrett, Walker and the rest are in a tough spot. With the FEDERAL gov’t abdicating their responsibilities to SPEND A LOT MORE MONEY, budgets are a mess. When people get serious about deficits, they’ll put America back to work.
http://www.lostoutputclock.com/
That’s the ONLY way to pay DOWN the deficit.
It’s one-thing to crush unions. It’s another to do it without proclaiming the truth and pointing a finger of blame. Why aren’t Dems and Republicans UNITING to legalize pot? The polls show both bases support it.
If you want to see a lot more kids join neo-NAZI outfits, keep repeating these “innocent frauds,” that the oligarchs are NOT the sole cause of our problems.
Oligarchs control the media and that’s what determines how low-information make up their minds
“Terror Threats Enough to Merit Warning, Obama Tells Leno”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-07/terror-threats-enough-to-merit-warning-obama-tells-leno.html
You bet people in Yemen are pissed, they’re watching US drones kill their neighbors. Unfortunately, our media won’t cover “that side.”
If the national media outlets run with what’s obviously state-sponsored propoganda, the few remaining local outlets have to follow. Those are the HEADLINES. That’s all most people have time to read.
“Oligarchy exists within our Democracy”
“…The primary impact of this leverage in the hands of the minority is on economic issues. The oligarchy is just as divided as the rest of the population on social issues, like immigration, LGBT rights, women’s issues and similar non-financial matters. It turns out that, for example, some of the oligarchs have family or friends or are themselves LGBT. Their interests in wars and other kinds of issues are also divided. Because of that, democracy could theoretically work on those issues. It’s only those economic issues where the rich are on the same team, and they always win those battles.
And that’s exactly how things are working out. On matters of direct interest to the oligarchy, they win. You can have your silly laws about marriage or abortion as long as they get their way on money. It’s a lousy bargain, and it doesn’t have to be that way.”
http://my.firedoglake.com/masaccio/2013/03/29/oligarchy-exists-inside-our-democracy/
We are a world-at-war.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/does-lake-michigans-record-low-water-level-mark-beginning-of-new-era-for-great-lakes-216429601.html
“Climate changed,” is winning.
Unions are a huge pain-in-the-neck. I get that, see doctors, lawyers, engineers, CPA’s, nurses…., the building trades, …… It’s no accident, however, that all the oligarchs HATE collective bargaining. They know it’s the ONLY leverage the 99% have.
amen Zach.good for you and Cory for being the voices of reason.
I suppose during the whole debate I was surprised when I had friends of mine(who we agree 99% of the time on most issues) make snippy,condescending comments to me about it when I never brought up the topic,nor insulted them for having a different opinion.I also overheard other folks talking crap about those who disagreed at events questioning how “progressive” they were.
it was sad to see.I did think we were all adults here…
I’m not a Democrat. If that’s a deal breaker, stop reading.
No party is ever going to reach a true consensus because perspectives vary within each. BUT tone and approach count more than some of you realize.
Passion is no substitute for understanding. And heated discussions about who is/isn’t a progressive are pointless.
Why? Because those are internal discussions. You aren’t reaching anyone who isn’t already a Democrat.
For every valid, thoughtful lib narrative, there seem to be four nonsensical ones. Many of you are well read, reasonable, approachable people. But your voices are lost in the shade of extremism.
Suppose for example, that you believe Scott Walker is a tea party tyrant bent on the destruction of public unions. How might you approach the matter? Well, some of you will research his quotes, votes, and policies. Then you’ll carefully craft a reasonable blog/argument based soundly in fact.
Sadly, others can’t/won’t bother. Opting instead to flood social media with redundant assertions based in passion and superstition. Attacking reporters, candidates and one another with all of the hate they claim to reserve for Walker himself.
“Walker killed a boy with his emails!” “Walker killed a baby fawn!” “Walker hates the elderly and mentally handicapped!” “Walker sells racist t-shirts!” The people who would be moved by these lazy swipes already share your opinions. And the people who elected him TWICE in a row, find the propoganda tiring and compelling in quite a different sense.
Half of you seem to be working on winning elections. The other half are busy sabotaging your efforts.
Many conservatives and even some of my libertarian friends will paint all of you with the same broad brush. Pointing to the most extreme among you in a dismissive manner and pasting their arguments as though it were the Dem party itself that’s been defeated. I would argue that those people suffer from the same thing that the least among you do- and that is selective comprehension.
Most polls indicate that the average American resides somewhere in the political middle. National candidates realize this and spend a king’s ransom tying to reach them. But this reality has yet to filter down to the ideologues.
Lastly, if you find that you’re unable to disengage your hate in favor of discussion (even when you seem to be losing an argument) then perhaps it’s the hate that’s doing the driving. And yes, I’m aware that the tea party has the same issues.
I believe Abele understands this. To some degree, Lena Taylor seems to get this. And many others. Getting nothing done isn’t an option. So they work with what and whom they’re given. But if you lambaste the people who are negotiating on your behalf, you’re doing Scott Walker’s job for him. Again. Party purity isn’t holding you back. The lack of listening is.
Thanks for your consideration!
Ben, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Yeah, that Scott Walker’s a helluva statesman.
In the recall he spent 88% of the money to get 53% of the vote.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/wisconsin-recall-results-scott-walker_b_1572887.html
Easy to win if the 1% buy the election for you.
It’s not just the ads that the oligarchs’ money buys, it’s the coordination of the ads with the polling of low-information voters who decide elections. That polling is sifted through messaging based on expensive focus group studies.
In addition to getting your funding from the oligarchs, this is how you win elections:
“Repeal the state income tax? Walker’s thinking about it”
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/218716931.html
If Dems want to win, they have to deliver prosperity. That’s done with counter-cyclical SPENDING which can ONLY start in Washington.
“A Plan for All the Detroits Out There”
http://economics.arawakcity.org/node/1112
is a good start.
In addition we need massive investment in increasingly supply chains.
should have been
“increasinlgy GREEN supply chains.”
Thank YOU Zach! Appreciate the opportunity. (And I admonished myself for the undue length. Wasn’t intentional.)
Thank you, Zach! Appreciate the discussion. Blogs that are actually about something, like this one, are well worth the time. Keep it up.
Ben, thanks for the kind words. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m far from perfect, and I can be overly partisan from time to time, but push come to shove I want this blog to be a place for liberals and conservatives to argue/debate/disagree, so long as it’s done with a minimum of personal attacks and mudslinging.
I might be biased here..but I think we do a good job of having different points of view represented here and good discussions! 🙂
You are biased, because you’re one of #abelesminions!
Thanks for this.
Ben Franklin put it nicely (though floridly): “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”