Renee Crawford of the “Crawford’s Take” blog has a good first-hand account of the violence at yesterday’s “tea party” rally on Milwaukee’s lakefront:
I hear a commotion. I looked up and saw an angry mob of angry white men chasing an older white man with a backpack. He was yelling “I have a right to free speech too.” The crowd was yelling, “You should die. You’re not an American., etc…” They started grabbing at him as he kept trying to leave the event. The crowd was growing (eventually to about 30 people) and the man clearly scared and angry and being grabbed, pushed and surrounded to impede his attempts to escape,
The man traveled about 300 yards attempting to escape the growing crowd. The crowd was riled up and screaming en masse, continuing to chase the man down, stop his movement, push and pull on his and in general attack the guy.
Then Joe the Plumber joined the tussle. I kid you not. I have no idea his role in it, just that he was IN THE MIDDLE of the crowd. The sheriffs get there, I turn to look at Joe the Plumber and the next thing I know the guy being assaulted by the crowd is bloody on the ground under the knee of two sheriffs and being cuffed. His face was bloody, there was something about a broken camera and I became scared of the crowd who were cheering and congratulating the sheriffs for “doing a great job”.
Truly this is an unfortunate occurrence. Violence is never a good thing, especially in the context of trying to stifle opposing viewpoints, as is alleged to be the case in this instance.
Of course there will be more than one explanation of what happened…and I’m sure they will contradict.
Wow….angry mob of angry white men…. That’s some quality reporting from someone wearing blinders supplied by the Daily Kos…. Yeah… A real good source. I’ll wait until the police report comes out to make a comment about what happened….
E, here’s a link to the news brief posted on JSOnline.com:
http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/59904297.html
Here’s the whole thing…..
One fight broke out at the Taxpayer Tea Party event Saturday at Veterans Park and a 50-year-old man was injured, the Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Department said.
The fight occurred about 5:30 p.m. along the north end of the park, the department said.
The man suffered facial lacerations and was taken to Columbia St. Mary’s Milwaukee.
No further details on the incident were available.
Thousands of people demonstrating against taxes attended the event, which featured conservative pundit and best-selling author Michelle Malkin.
Some counter-demonstrators gathered near the event to support health care reform.
Do you notice any difference between the reporting here????
C’mon Zach…. Really.
That is not at all the whole story. There is no mention of the cause, or who did the fighting. There is no mention of Joe the non-licensed Plumber, who apparently threw a punch. There is more information about the rally itself than the fight.
The differences between the account of the incident and the “reporting” of the incident are that one is a first-hand account and the other is a summarization of the event that leaves out major details of what happened.
Deeper reporting on the event is necessary. Your insulting tone is not.
I am referring to Renee Crawford’s post, by the way. Have you read that?
I was there, most peaceful crowd you could imagine, this guy was drunk and created a disturbance the cops subdued him not the crowd.. didn’t look that old to me. When these people see the pics you’ll be exposed. All you have is your lies.
They lie to you
to steal your minds
then they steal your freedom
They despise you, think you are stupid, too fat, bare too many children
Their dream to transform you into a perfect citizen is your worse nightmare.
We wouldn’t lie to you
Because we love you the way you are.
Actually this man slapped and hit two women, one in the face, knocked things out of their hands, and was swearing and swatting at people and was drunk. He tried to rush the stage when a speaker was talking.
He was stinking drunk. Joe tried to stop him from further attacking innocent people who were just standing there.
He was a violent leftist likely ginned up by nasty Nancy and her idiocratic media claiming ‘racism and violence’.
Well we are 6-0 for violence and the liberals are winning including murdering an innocent man who was holding a pro-life poster.
Why are you equating “winning” with murder?
That’s funny,I was right there and none of those comments were said. He tried to charge the stage , and got arrested for it. Let’s quit (both sides) twisting stuff around.
The most amazing thing is that people are willing to turn a blind eye to multiple video sources and every eyewitness account other than Renee “Mob of Angry White Men” Crawford.
Crawford is lying. We all know this, is there not one among you who gives a damn about the lives of all these people? Shame! Be your own advocate, when is the last time you have walked among the masses, and been a part of something! Shame, my mother was an advocate of those who could not speak, she is in Texas, telling me to ight! Gail Chicks, MiwaukeeI
Gail, who exactly don’t we give a damn about?
Also, I walk among the “masses” pretty regularly, and I’m a part of something, but thanks for your suggestion.
Gail…you really need to chill out…or do you plan on threatening people over here too?
And BTW…Renee Crawford has been honest and straight forward with what she witnessed and has repeatedly said she did not see the whole incident…so how about you stop calling her a liar?
What Renee reports, and what can be seen on several videos easily obtained, don’t match up. Whether that’s lying or selective memory, draw your own conclusions.
Jose…I was just rereading Renee Crawford’s blog…and I don’t see where she lied. Maybe you can point it out to me. The only thing is the number of angry men…from the video it didn’t look like 30 angry men. I’d say it was more like 10 -15 angry men without watching the video again…but I don’t find it unusual that she felt like there were more angry men than there were.
Zach and Anonn xactly what were you pulling for before, just me being curious?
I would reply to this comment but I honestly don’t know what you are asking me.
I’ll have to second that…
Why don’t you man up, got a daughter in Baghdad, and a nephew in Marine Boot!
Gail…I’m sure the fact there are liberals in the military…and liberals with children in the military escapes you…but it’s true. Why you would assume to know anything about anyone on here to tell them to “man up” is puzzling. With that said…I thank your daughter and your nephew for their service…and I thank you as her mom. It’s must be a very frightening time for you. May God watch over your baby girl and bring her home safely.
Gail, I “manned up” as you refer to it, only to be medically disqualified. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Sad to see the responses to Gail are for the most part simply “Why address the issue when you can smear the messenger” … Anon, not exactly sure where you got the impression Gail was threatening you? Perhaps it’s more a case that you just feel threatened by her. That would help explain the anonymous status of your posts.
I don’t have the impression that Gail is threatening me. Did I say that? I’ve read her comments in other places today and noticed she bullies people and likes to tout her LE experience. If she is coming here to do the same it’s not going to work. However…if she is interested in a rational discussion…she came to the right place.
And BTW…”Jose”…aren’t you also anonymous??
No, that’s my name. What’s yours?
Maybe Anon is her name.
I was there, and I can tell you, Renee Crawford is Delusional…..whoever she is. Did she mention how the “injured man” injured a woman?
Um hate to ruin all the arguing here, but there’s no way Renee Crawford saw or heard what she claims to. Anon, you’re right, she doesn’t claim to have seen the whole thing, but there is VIDEO of what she did claim to see. That video can be found here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dg4m-AzuKc
As usual when it comes to things like this, the truth is on our side, and we are willing and ABLE to prove it
Anon – let me give you a hand here, a refresher if you will
Lie
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties
Wow Jason, excellent use of the dictionary! Mad props!
Well, Anon seemed a bit… fuzzy on the term. If you read Renee’s account and watch the video I posted you’ll see the differences. I could be wrong here, but there are only three reasons I can think of for this
A) Renee wasn’t actually there and is writing this from hearsay
B) She’s…embellishing (read: Lying) to make a more juicy story
C) For some reason she’s experiencing reality differently than the rest of us
D) She was at a different rally
I will agree with these things
1) Joe the plumber was there
2) There was an older white man with a backpack
–However instead of leaving he was actively engaging in arguments with others
–The video does not show anyone other than the police doing anything other than guide him away from the crowd. When he did finally disengage from his argument at the behest of Joe the plumber and event security he freely walked away – Until he struck a young woman and was taken down by law enforcement, not the crowd
Now maybe Renee Crawford doesn’t think that someone striking a woman should result in the police attempting to intercede and place the person in custody. Personally I have to agree with the crowd, that is a great use of law enforcement and our tax dollars
“Now maybe Renee Crawford doesn’t think that someone striking a woman should result in the police attempting to intercede and place the person in custody.”
Jason…according to the definition of “lie” you posted in an earlier comment you are a liar. You already know Ms. Crawford didn’t see the man strike anyone…however you make the “inaccurate or false statement” (a lie) regarding how she thinks about what should happen to “someone striking a woman”…as if you are a mind reader. Ms. Crawford made it very clear in her blog post she didn’t see anything that happened before seeing the angry men following the man with the backpack…so why are you trying to “convey a false impression” (a lie) about what Ms. Crawford thinks about an alleged assault she didn’t even see?
Also…I am curious…how do you know a woman was even struck if you weren’t there (or didn’t see it)? Were you writing from “hearsay”?
The video I posted and the comments I made are of the same point in time; the same time period Renee’s post deals with. Her account and the video are at odds. I didn’t make a statment, I put forth a theory, there’s a difference.
From Renee’s post
They started grabbing at him as he kept trying to leave the event. The crowd was growing (eventually to about 30 people) and the man clearly scared and angry and being grabbed, pushed and surrounded to impede his attempts to escape
…continuing to chase the man down, stop his movement, push and pull on his and in general attack the guy.
…next thing I know the guy being assaulted by the crowd
As to how I know a woman was struck, try listening to a news source other than NPR
Or are you of the belief that the police just took this guy down for no reason?
“I didn’t make a statment, I put forth a theory, there’s a difference.”
Oh…I see…so you were throwing a “qualifier” out there for us to consider. You really don’t know…but it’s your theory. Got it. 🙂
“As to how I know a woman was struck, try listening to a news source other than NPR”
Hmmm…again…you lie…I never listened to NPR in my life.
“Or are you of the belief that the police just took this guy down for no reason?”
Yeah…I think LE take down people for no reason…LOL. I’m sure those people who know a little about me personally find that humorous…as do I. I don’t know why the LE arrested this man…I’m sure they had a reason…but it’s not my place to repeat hearsay without verifying it first…all the while shaking my finger at someone else for doing the same. How about you look up the word hypocrite next time…
Boy…Jason…you are on a roll.
Yes, it is a theory, an idea, a possibility, not a statement of fact such as, oh “…next thing I know the guy being assaulted by the crowd is bloody on the ground…” It’s actually pretty common to do in the English language. You ask how I know a woman was assaulted; obviously you and I use different news sources. I suppose I could have said other than the Journal Sentinel which reported
One fight broke out at the Taxpayer Tea Party event Saturday at Veterans Park and a 50-year-old man was injured, the Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Department said.
The fight occurred about 5:30 p.m. along the north end of the park, the department said.
The man suffered facial lacerations and was taken to Columbia St. Mary’s Milwaukee.
No further details on the incident were available.
NBC quoted the JS story and ABC, CBS & FOX didn’t mention the incident on their websites. Strange that according to the video he isn’t injured before the police took him down and there’s no mention of anyone else being injured nor did the police take anyone else down
So I will admit the NPR crack was a bit snide, and a generalization. But still not a lie, just an assumption base on your comments throughout this piece. Why did the police take the man down? Eyewitnesses have reported that he struck a young woman who had taken his picture. I know, I know, that someone says they saw something doesn’t mean they did – I believe that’s been the heart of this discussion
Your right, I don’t know you. I do know that you’ve been defending a report that is not supported by the facts and trying to discredit anyone that disagrees — Wait, that’s not correct, you’ve given up supporting Crawford’s account (Bravo!) and have instead turned to attacking me for daring to disagree with Crawford
Does make me wonder if you are really Renee Crawford though, it would explain your spirited defense and the complete lack of her presence on this blog, even to clarify her positions
— Just want to clarify mine, just for you, I’m not saying that you are Renee Crawford, just suggestion that you might be
Jason…
“Wait, that’s not correct, you’ve given up supporting Crawford’s account (Bravo!) and have instead turned to attacking me for daring to disagree with Crawford”
Again…you “lie”.
“Does make me wonder if you are really Renee Crawford though, it would explain your spirited defense and the complete lack of her presence on this blog, even to clarify her positions
– Just want to clarify mine, just for you, I’m not saying that you are Renee Crawford, just suggestion that you might be”
Another “lie” with a bonus “qualifier” added… 🙂
What news source did you hear or read which reported a woman was struck by the man with the backpack?? It’s a pretty simple question…but I can understand why you are diverting away from answering the question.
Anon, you do understand the difference between someone stating a fact and an opinion right? An opinion is not a “lie” with a bonus “qualifier” it’s an idea that the person believes may be true, or a thought that is put out for consideration. For example, if I say I think a certain brand of salt and vinegar chips are the best, that may or may not be the case. There are more than likely other types I haven’t tried yet, and someone else’s tastes may not match up with mine. Neither of these things makes what I said to be a lie. It’s a statement of opinion based on my current life experiences and application of the knowledge I have at the moment of my statement. If that difference has somehow eluded you this far into life I shudder to imagine what you’re life has been like
As to my ‘lie’
“Wait, that’s not correct, you’ve given up supporting Crawford’s account (Bravo!) and have instead turned to attacking me for daring to disagree with Crawford”
Again…you “lie”.
I can answer that one referencing your posts on 9-22
8:25 You were both defending Renee and attacking me for offering a thought for consideration
9:17 You were fully attacking me with no defense of Renee
3:02 You again were attacking me with no defense or Renee, including referring to the fact that you had not defended her piece in the 9:17 offering as a “lie”.
As far as the opinions I offered they were based on the video I posted here for all to see.
Since you asked (all you had to do) my initial source of the information that a young woman had been struck by this man that came from Vikki Mckenna on 1130, who was there, since she was one of the speakers there is actual proof that she was in attendance. Are there any shots of Renee in the crowd to prove she was there?? There are also several eyewitness accounts confirming this, some posted here in fact
However that does bring us right back to the heart of the matter, the video I posted is contradictory to Renee’s version of what happened. This means that her ‘eyewitness’ account can be proven false. You can discount all the accounts if you would like, I could not find video showing the attack. However hearing about the attack and seeing the police take down only one person and not two (as they would in a fight) the story does ring true to me
Here’s an opinion for you, a thought to consider only, and is not meant to be a statement of fact: if I had been able to find the video and post it I think that there are those that would claim she attacked him with her camera
Jason…I could go on with you about how you continue to “lie”…(by your own definition)…in just about everything you are writing but it would serve no purpose. You came on here posting the definition of “lie” for me…perhaps trying to insult my intelligence…but as you can see if anyone is “fuzzy” about things it’s you.
Having watched the video a few times I am wondering why the police arrested the man with the backpack. The view of the man and what he was doing immediately before he was taken down to the ground by LE isn’t visible on the video. If he did strike a woman and LE were aware of it I can’t help but wonder why they didn’t arrest him earlier. Also…the obnoxious asshole who was taking the video said a lot while he was taking the video…but one thing he didn’t say is how the man just struck a woman. You’d think…if the video taker witnessed the man with the backpack strike a woman he would have been telling the mob of angry men that surrounded the man that fact. But…unless I missed it (a qualifier)…I didn’t hear him say anything about an assault on a woman. In fact…none of the out-of-control angry men said anything about an assault on a woman.
I have been trying to find out what the man with the backpack was arrested for…but I can’t find his name anywhere to check the CCAP records. I also did an advance search on CCAP looking for an arrest of a man who is around the same age of this man by either MPD or MCSO but could not find anyone as of yesterday afternoon. Perhaps you have that information and can share it with us??
Oh…and BTW…McKenna is not a credible “news source”.
Jason, let me just clear something up for you. Anon is not Renee Crawford.
Zach…I am sure Ms. Crawford is very relieved you cleared that up… 😉
From the eyewitness accounts LE took him down immediately after he struck the young woman. Guessing most people figured the incident was done and were going back to enjoying the event right until LE moved. Given how little time it would have taken, unless someone was actively filming the guy walking away that part wouldn’t be filmed – who would film a guy leaving the event? Actually the video does show most people turning back to the event right until LE moves
Several of the accounts mention that the young woman didn’t press charges. This would go along with why the man was taken to the hospital and not jail. There is no mention of him being arrested, so his name wouldn’t be released
But these are just logical suppositions, which I’m sure you’ll refer to as lies. Another possibility is that the angry white men Renee Crawford is referring to were the police that took him down, and they just did it as a lark. It is possibly, but I’m willing to give LE far more credit than that. More than likely the man did something requiring a LE response. Every eyewitness says he struck a young woman, but I admit they could all be lying
I’m just curious, when I offer what is obviously an opinion you say I’m lying. An opinion may be wrong, that does not make it a lie. Calling me names doesn’t change that, though it does reflect poorly on your call for ‘rational discussion’ (9/20 11:34 post) Is it just me or do you call anyone that has a “qualifier” in their statement a liar? Must be fun at parties:
”I think Chevy makes a good car”
“You lie!”
None of what you’ve labeled as lies have been, but that’s okay, that’s your opinion and right or wrong you’re entitled to it
Yet when Renee Crawford offers an account that can be contradicted by video you treat it as the gospel.
Given that there are multiple videos contradicting Renee Crawford’s report I don’t think she can be taken as a credible news source
Good to know, it was just seemed a possibility given the spirited defense and Renee’s lack of presence here
The point I was trying to make by saying you “lie” (by your own definition mind you) is if opinions differ between two people one could always say the other is lying…but sometimes it’s more polite and civil just to say the other person is wrong and explain why.
I think what matters is the intent behind what is being said…and although I don’t know Ms. Crawford…I do not believe she was intentionally lying about what she witnessed…(and the video does support most of what she wrote in her blog). For instance…one of the men in the video did look a lot like Joe (the plumber). At the time she thought it was him…although she was careful enough to include what “Roland Melnick” calls “qualifiers”. When a person uses “qualifiers” it tells me they are unsure of what was happening…which she clearly states several times…so therefore…I don’t consider anything she may have gotten wrong a lie. Ms. Crawford then writes a follow up blog fairly quickly to say she was wrong about Joe (the plumber)…not exactly the actions of someone who is trying to intentionally lie about something or someone…in my opinion. So…if you can’t understand the difference between being wrong and lying I give up.
Hmmm…are you saying the man with the backpack struck the woman immediately before being taken down by LE? I was under the impression the angry mob of men were chasing and taunting him because he struck a woman earlier. So…now…I have to ask…why were those angry men chasing and taunting the man with the backpack if he wasn’t doing anything other than maybe voicing an opinion they didn’t like? And…you are also saying he wasn’t arrested? Interesting how the story is changing.
One last thing…as I stated I don’t know Ms. Crawford and I’m not really defending her personally…but instead I’m defending the principle that people should be able to get things wrong once in awhile without being branded a liar. I know the conservatives bloggers like to brand every liberal a liar every chance they get. I think they use it as a diversion…so they don’t have to rationally discuss what is happening in this country…and it gives them a reason to stay so angry and hateful. It’s really too bad…because there is so much we need to discuss…rationally…without the name calling.
A teachable moment
President Obama and George Stephanopolis after the interview
“George whats this Merriam Webster Shit?”
“Well I just…”
“Jackass, I go out there with just my GIFT and my charisma and you have a freaken dictionary and NOTES?”
“Mr president I just….”
“How weak can you be looking up things and crap, doing research to show me up. Thats what THEY do, those conservatives.”
“Mr president its just a dictionary……”
“George are you a CONSERVATIVE?, I told you guys no hard questions, I just want to smirk and grin, its my gift, you know, and doing my hands like this, the folks like that”
“Mr President…”
“That’s it George we are out of time… No gold star for you this time, pay attention I’m going to frown at you…
Thanks for that breath of reality, Jason. That video may not show everything that led up to the argument, including the alleged bad behavior by the “older white man with a backpack.” What this video does show is that the only people that laid hands on the backpacker were policemen. You do see “Joe the Plumber” there for a brief moment (aided by two event staffers in bright yellow t-shirts) where he was trying to separate the arguing parties in a very calm way by holding a couple people back from the guy with the backpack so he could walk away. It’s pretty dishonest to suggest “Joe” was involved in the tussle when he clearly was trying to diffuse the situation. The guy was walking away. There was no crowd/mob surrounding this guy when he was on the ground, just a group of sheriff’s trying to arrest him. In fact, at about 1:06 in Jason’s vid, the guy turns toward the camera and you can clearly see that he’s not all bloody. He then walks away and those guys arguing with him don’t follow.
Ms. Crawford throws so many qualifiers like “I have no idea” and “I’m unclear as to Joe’s role”…you would think she would reserve comment until she knows more rather than allege that a group of 30 people were attacking a guy and that “Joe” was one of them. To say that this one incident (rather mild in the grand scheme of things) equates to saying the TEA Party movement “has turned to violence” is pretty dishonest. Ms. Crawford’s agenda is clear…since you parrot her view Zach…yours is too. Zack, Renee…whether you realize it or not, such dishonesty only serves to discredit that agenda. Free thinking folks will see it for what it is and will be turned off.
BTW…here’s one more gem of a lie from Ms. Crawford:
“At what point do we call this violent “revolution” that’s embracing bigotry and nazism from the stage out for their actions?”
Phew…Ms. Crawford, that’s a doozie!
Roland, I didn’t “parrot Renee’s view;” I simply reported on something I felt merited discussion.
“Zach…yours is too. Zack…”
Zach…I know you will probably tell me I’m off topic here again and I do apologize…but I can’t help note how unusual it is that “Roland Melnick” would write your name correctly once and then misspell it seconds later. “JeffN” did the same exact thing in a comment about John Adams over the weekend. I wonder how often that happens…two different people having the same exact problem getting a person’s name spelled right?? It’s just one of those odd things I notice…