If I were a Republican ideologue who publicly railed against government, I probably would not accept a job working for the government. But that’s just me. Clearly, others feel differently. Like Cathy Stepp, the Walker-appointed Wisconsin DNR Secretary who supported wolf-hunting with dogs and helped let Herr Environmental off the hook for contaminating drinking water with human waste. Stepp and other Wisconsinites are in Tampa this week making the case for government worker Paul Ryan’s anti-government stance.
From Brookfield Patch:
Among those from southeastern Wisconsin who are heading to Florida are Cathy Stepp, Dona Poelman, Yash Wadhwa and Brian Dorow — Republicans who say they believe in the fundamental values of individual freedom, less spending and less government.
They also believe in Ryan’s ability to make the case for a conservative movement to take root on a national level and they want to see Romney and Ryan in the White House.
Cathy Stepp and Paul Ryan go way back, and she thinks he’s awesome:
Stepp has known Ryan for a long time. She believes he has a strong understanding of the economic issues the country is facing, and he communicates his ideas well.
“He boils down very complex solutions into messages people can relate to,” she said.
Several of those who are trekking to Florida said these messages have resonated well in Wisconsin and they have a place on the federal level.
It’s a messaging system which, in my opinion, takes complex issues, pulverizes them into unrecognizable mush and spoon feeds them to the public via right-wing talk radio.
But it hasn’t been easy for the Wisconsin GOP, according to Stepp:
“Wisconsin is fundamentally more of a purple state, but the conservatives here have had to work hard to layout our case,” said Stepp, a former state senator for Racine and Kenosha counties, and now secretary of the state Department of Natural Resources.
“We’ve gotten better at communicating our messages, we’ve gotten better at simplifying our points and our people are willing to take the lead under immense political pressure,” she said. “When you do that, it emboldens people to do the same.”
Yes, empowered by their recent success working in Wisconsin government, these brave souls have apparently become even more emboldened to speak out against government.
And it’s not just government employees. Dona Poelman, Racine County delegate, will also have her say in Tampa this week:
Poelman believes this election is a watershed moment for the country, a choice between euro-socialism and going back to the values of the Constitution.
It appears that Poelman and I define “socialism” differently and interpret the Constitution in radically different ways, because this makes no sense to me.
Maybe we’ll get some clarification as Wisconsin Republicans take center stage this week at the convention.
And hopefully these Wisconsin Republicans will make lots of new contacts so that they won’t have to work in government and can find jobs in the private sector.
A girl can dream.
Well, let’s be clear… Political appointments, while they draw a public paycheck, are not “government jobs” in the sense one thinks of government jobs. To my way of thinking, there’s no hypocrisy in taking a political job if your supporting the goals of the political party you belong to. The same goes for elected officials. They’re not “public employees” in the sense you’re using the term.
Now if you have teachers, social workers and nurses who work in the public sector out stumping for Walker and his cronies… sure, you’d have a case. But political jobs like the Wisconsin DNR Secretary? You’re barking up the wrong tree.
The way I see it, if you get a paycheck and benefits from the government, you’ve got a government job.
Maybe technically this is not correct, but I’m really tired of those who take from the government and rail against others who would do so.
That’s where I’m coming from with this post. 🙂
But to dismantle government, they need to be inside. You can’t knock down the load-bearing walls from outside. That’s the point. I don’t agree with that end goal (although dealing with the Wisconsin DMV, I’m becoming more sympathetic to it every day), but the reality of our system is that the party in power gets to make those political appointments. And those appointments, while they draw a paycheck from the government, are not “government jobs” in the sense you mean.
Political jobs are “at will” employment whereas most traditional government jobs (the ones we think of as government jobs at least) are more often than not covered by some kind of employment contract for which there are consequences for termination (for instance, Amy’s role at Dane County could be eliminated but, based on seniority, she would be able to “bump” someone else while I, in the private sector, would be out on the bricks looking for work). If you’re a political appointee, your job rests on the political system and on the political party you support staying in power. For my father, that meant that Jimmy Carter would have had to be re-elected in 1980 to keep his high-level Justice Department job. Carter was defeated and my father was unemployed. Now, he did manage to land another job at the Commerce Department as a non-political appointee and remained there until he died. But the point is, political jobs are not traditional government jobs.
Let me ask you this. In order for Walker to carry out his Grover Norquist bathtub drowning exercise on Wisconsin government, do you expect him to do it without making any political appointments?
The point I’m making, that those who take money from the government and hate government so much are hypocrites, and the point you’re making, that to dismantle government you need to be inside, are two very different points. And we probably both agree on those points.
If I had used “political appointees who receive payment and benefits from the government” instead of “government employees”, would we be having this discussion? I think that gets to the heart of this disagreement.
You’re point is illogical since you admit that you will call anyone with an agenda to dismantle (or greatly diminish) the role of government through the use of political appointees to carry out the task a hypocrite. My point is that these people are not hypocrites, they are zealots, ideologues, lunatics and a whole host of other pejoratives. But given our current political system where political appointees are used to administer the various departments of government, it’s hardly hypocritical if you run on a platform to dismantle government to take a job that will facilitate that end-goal.
Again, you’d have a point if these were actual public employees… They’re not. They’re political hacks.
Well, we can sit here and argue with each other, or we can blog about what the Republicans are up to next. I prefer the latter. 🙂
I’m OK with that.
Ok let’s be real here.
1. If you work for government, get paid by government(ie tax dollars) it is a government job. I had to read this through a couple times to comprehend that that point was actually being argued.
2. EVERY single job in the country is an at will job!
3. As we have found out that last few years in WI. Elected office is less of an at will job than most. The people of WI have shown that no matter how bad you are at your job they do not like the recall, and our system is seriously skewed towards the incumbents, especially when you can hire 12 people on the taxpayers dime that do nothing but fund raise for you. Compare that to public school teachers, who no matter how great they are at their job have to, by law, sign a one year contract.
4. If you have been paying attention politically since the 80’s, you would know that republicans have zero interest in “dismantleing government” when they are actually in Government. They only want to end government when they are not in charge. Reagan was famous for his the worst thing is “I am from the government and im here to help” yet he spent how many years in Government and curing his 8years actually increased government.
5. kevin the last two years you spent advocating getting rid of civil service protections for public employees, now you are whining that you didnt have any when you workedin Washington DC because the party you have compromised all of your principles for thought so little of you that they refused to make you a full time employee? Not sure if i should laugh at you or pity you.
6. “There is no hypocrisy in taking a political job to support the party you believe in.” That I agree with, that is what Kevin has done. BUT Cathy stepp took DNR Secretary NOT a political job. Do you think the DNR secretary should be there to be o i dont know , ahead of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources for all people, or should her main goal to be get scott walker and mitt romeny elected?
7. I will save you some typing because im fully aware Kathleen Falk lost!
Just to add my perspective as a government employee, I’ll just note that while I see some validity in the arguments being made by both Phil and Lisa, I know I draw a distinction between “public employees” (typically rank-and-file folks) and the “political appointees” being referred to by Lisa.
That being said, you both raise good points.
I agree with Lisa on this issue. The above post references those who oppose government, yet they collect a check from the government as employees. Lets use this example, if you oppose Walmart, you as a contractor, new hire, marketer or consumer would not shop there, work there or even associate yourself with them. If you receive monetary reward for work you have done for them, you for whatever period of time, were an employee of that business.
If it were true that everyone that worked for the government were not employees of the government, wouldn’t they all have to have doing business as licenses? Be subjected to some sort of regulation, oversight or in the very least, provide their own health insurance?
As a past Schedule C [look it up] in Washington, DC, I can tell you that you are not “full-time,” you don’t have any civil service protections and you serve at the pleasure of the President as long as he’s President.
If that’s “being a government employee,” I seriously got the shaft in January 2009.
Kevin, few people here care about the time you spent fetching coffee at HUD during the Bush administration.
Oh dear… Kevin and I agree on something… Has there been a rupture in the fabric of space and time???
Not really.
And yet Kathleen Falk STILL hasn’t become Governor… I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you… With supporters like you behind her, I’m amazed she’s not The Empress of Badgertopia. But then maybe your influence isn’t as profound as you might think it is, little fish.
Wel, that made a lot of sense now, didn’t it? You’d better go lay down until you feel better. Or are there any non sequiturs you need to spew out?
I feel just fine, thanks for asking, little fish.
Denial is a wonderful defense mechanism, isn’t it?
…quoth the master.
See my first comment.
Why. I doubt it’s improved with age.
And that would lead to a referral to the denial comment…
Nope. As I suspected, no better with age.
Great logic 101 argument.
Lisa and Phil are actually making like points about the nature of Wisconsin conservatives in state government. They would would flow together rather nicely if they were a joint post…I can imagine it now:
Republicans enter state government service to destroy it (totally opposite of its organizational purpose), however while there to destroy it because it’s “too big” they gleefully accept the benefits of such a role.
As for Kevin — He’s just trying to create a logical diversion by relating his experience in federal government as an appointee. Good work on the classic GOP misuse of the Venn diagram!
I will grant you the irony… It is ironic and cynical that Republicans seek to enter state government in order to muck it up. But it’s not hypocrisy. It’s cynicism. I’m reminded of this delicious scene from Yes, Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey attempts to explain to the PM the real reason that the UK has joined the EU:
Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it’s worked so well?
Hacker: That’s all ancient history, surely?
Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We ‘had’ to break the whole thing [the EEC] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn’t work. Now that we’re inside we can make a complete pig’s breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it’s just like old times.
Hacker: But surely we’re all committed to the European ideal?
Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister.
Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?
Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It’s just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.
Hacker: What appalling cynicism.
Sir Humphrey: Yes… We call it diplomacy, Minister.
And the Republicans call it “governing.”
check out ron johnson’s comments comparing the convention to a “trade show.” he’ll never realize their irony, as he stumbles onto the truth.
Actually it is hypocrisy since they say they want to shrink government until they can drown it in a bathtub, but in reality are just looking to cash in on it for themselves and their rich corporate friends. In reality, they usually end up increasing the size of government.
Seconsly, Stepp was hired to run the DNR, not do campaigning. I realize that with with present regime and with the utter corruption they have brought in, it is easy to forget that once upon a time, the head of the DNR was brought on to do just that. Stepp wasn’t hired to do politicking. Well, OK, she might have, but that doesn’t mean that’s what the job is all about.
And Kev, it’s no surprised that you’d get ripped off. Just look at some of the gullible crap you buy into.
Ahem…
Political appointees aren’t government workers. They don’t follow the same rules and are not bound by the same limitations.
Congratulations! You’ve figured out that corporate Dems are no better than Republicans. Now where did we hear that before?
From me. Or me.. Or was it me?
LOL….it was you.
So am I to understand that you are arguing that the phenomenon of executive cabinets (either at the state or Federal level) campaigning on behalf or the executive or the executive’s political party is both a recent phenomenon and somehow corrupt?
My, first denial, now hallucinations. Do get yourself to a doctor post haste.
The Nixonian non-denial denial deflection gambit. Sorry, you’re not getting off that easy, little fish.
So does this mean that you are
or that you aren’t
It’s a simple choice. Pick one, little fish.
Never mind.. Don’t answer. Frankly, I can believe I was silly enough to get dragged down into your sewer, Chris. I’m done with you and with this thread.
My apologies to Lisa for polluting your post with offal.
Frankly, I don’t know what I was thinking coming back onto BB. Hell, I don’t even read BB anymore! I only saw your post because it came through on Facebook and decided I needed to provide a small counter to your argument. Silly me…
Stupid, stupid, stupid…
“I shall not return…” said no General Douglas MacArthur ever.
chris, don’t be a jackass.
Uh? So Phil goes apeshit and I’m the bad guy? Why am I not surprised?
Phil went “apeshit” in your words after you wrote “My, first denial, now hallucinations. Do get yourself to a doctor post haste.”
And as for your level of surprise, spare me, because I don’t care.
I know you don’t.
Glad we settled that, though I will say I’m glad to see you’re working on being less passive-aggressive!
there was someone unhinged here and it wasnt capper!
Thanks for your input Jeff.
Your Welcome. Lisa had a great post here but the whole thing got sidetracked unfortunately