After this weekend\'s shooting spree in AZ, there has been much speculation as to what could of helped to spark it, or if we need better gun laws in the US. After the the insanity and violent rhetoric of the last election from the right, that resulted in a coordinated effort from the right wing media to deflect the attention. This even led to Sarah Palin, playing the part of the cat who ate the canary, giving a 10 minute ramble on why she isnt guilty.
While the CYA of the Republican party has been interesting to watch, in the meantime, real world reality set in. Today
four Arizona republicans resigned out of fear of the tea party.
As the District Republican chairman said: ‘I don’t want to take a bullet for anyone’. So its great for Glenn beck to tell us they had nothing to do with it, or for Sarah Palin to scrub her website and claim innocent, but real people are really scared for their life.
Shame on the republican party!!!
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/jared-loughners-friend-says-suspect-did-not-watch-tv-disliked-the-news_b48040
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/12/20110112gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-pima-county-wont-release-jared-loughner-records.html
The more you try and make Sarah Palin the scapegoat, the more you look like an idiot.
The shooter was a loon, had made threats against people (including the congresswoman) BEFORE Palin was even in the headlines, and STILL you want to blame “the hateful right.”
The more FACTS that come out, the more you are discredited.
And, by the way, please “refute” these left-hate diatribes:
http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/realitycheck/2011/20110111020540.aspx
So the death threats that these people have had that led to them resigning is a figment of their imagination?
This is obamas fault?
Tea party members supporting J.D. Hayworth for senator in the midterm elections accused Miller, an African American, of being a “McCain’s boy.” One detractor had even made his hand into the shape of a gun and pointed it at Miller.
Once again we learn from the example that is Mark…you are awful defensive there, aren’t ya? While your links are informative and at the same time horrible, the Ed Shultz Chenney reference is very bad…but he has apologized. Tweety, aka Chris Matthews was wrong to say that about Rush Limbaugh, but he is from the same school as Sarah Palin, he will never apologize, sadly. Bill Maher is a comedian, you can argue that comedians should be stopped. AND Mike Malloy…all I have to say is yes he is bad, he is constantly pushing the limits and I don’t listen to him often, but if he is inciting gun violence the way Sarah Palin is then he should stop.
In all the Right wing defensiveness they have lost sight of the real subject. We need to, as a country, realize that we can disagree without using the language of “armed and dangerous”, “if the ballot box doesn’t work the bullet box will”, “second amendment remedies”, and finally “don’t retreat, reload.”
Stop being so defensive Mark, stop finding equivalences, just stop! Now lets talk about how as a country of differing opinions we can move forward…TOGETHER!
(That and keeping the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.)
I have a little different take. Sure I think everyone should tone down the violent rhetoric, but I personally think that POLITICIANS should be held to a different standard than talk show hosts, comedians, singers, etc…
If Glenn beck wants to talk about killing nancy pelosi let him, its not funny or even remotely intelligent but he should only be held to account by people turning him off(which many have done).
POLITICIANS on the other hand should be punished when they say things like ‘reload” or “2nd amendment remedies” etc… You will not find equivalencies on the left for these things. NO we must fight for what we believe in does not equate to putting politicians name on targets and having a target practice fundraiser. The sad thing about the current state of America is the dumber things that a politician would say, the more their approval ratings went up. When in reality, and in every other election in history, it would of disqualified them from ever running for office again.
The sad thing is as long as the Mark’s of the world keep rewarding politicians who bring that stupid rhetoric, the worse its going to get and the more “non-related” public shootings we are going to have.
Here’s a republican with some integrity. Joe Scarborough calling out Glenn Beck for what he is, and encouraging GOP leaders to do the same.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/joe-scarborough-glenn-beck-feud_n_807892.html
Scarborough is a RINO, what he has to say about beck or any other conservative means next to nothing.
Once again we see how the extreme right thinks (in Nota’s comment) and how they try to run off any moderate republican. Who wants a political party full of extremists?
Moderates have no place in the conservative movement, if they want to be moderates they need to look else where.
I’m being completely serious when I ask you this Nota…you do realize you are buying into all the vitriol spewed by those people on the exteme right who have no interest in seeing all Americans prosper. And…if you do realize it…why would you go along with such selfishness?
Not sure what you think I am buying into, all I know is that America is not the country I once knew.
And you feel repressing those who don’t agree with you politically will make America better? Whatever happen to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all? I wouldn’t want to stand in your way…so why would you want to stand in anyone else’s way?
See, here’s the funny thing about conservatives like Notalib: they say they want government out of our lives as much as possible, except when they want to moralize about same sex marriage, gays in the military, abortion rights, etc., etc., at which point they fully support the government stepping in with mandates.
Apparently a sweeping mandate on health care for all Americans is eeeevvvvvvvvil according to folks like Notalib, but no doubt a sweeping mandate from the government banning abortion or prohibiting same sex marriage would be A-Okay!
here is the funny thing, i don’t care if gays were to marry, I don’t crae if gays openly serve in the military, I do not agree with abortion only when the mothers life is at risk, anything else you wnat me to straighten you out on instead of just lying about me?
Well then nota, its too bad you dont run the republican party because the so called “conservatives” that you support sure have a problem with those things.
Here’s Scarborough a few weeks ago putting Sarah Palin in her place. We need more republicans like him.
http://www.crowleypoliticalreport.com/2010/11/joe-scarborough-rips-sarah-palin.html
Good grief…you just don’t get it. Here, there is NO LINK WHATSOEVER with the shooter and the comments made by Sarah Palin, and you still attempt to draw that link.
And what if the shooter is linked to comments made by Bill Mahr or Keith Olberman? What then?
To think that the policial rhetoric is somehow worse now than it has been in the 200-plus years our country has been around, you are fooling yourselves. It’s been worse, much worse.
Please, prove there is a link between what was said (by the right, left, or center) and what the shooter did. THere isn’t one.
Instead, the left wants to politicize the tragedy.
But please, continue to scream and rant.
You are right PP, and I also let Mark distract me from what this blog post is all about. These Republicans Politicians were scared to continue to do their duly elected civic duty because the rhetoric has escalated to the point that ‘they’ fear for their lives.
Sarah Palin as a Politician should be held to a higher standard than a Glenn Beck. There is no direct tie from what Sarah has said and what this shooter has done, and I don’t claim there is, but when the rhetoric gets to a fevered pitch, good people are afraid to serve. Whenever the rhetoric reaches these points in history violence happens, wouldn’t it be refreshing if we could, for once learn from our mistakes and STOP!
Mark,
It must really sting to read the words of one of your own who has some courage and integrity, Scarborough. My heart really goes out to you in your time of distress.
It doesn’t matter if the rhetoric directly caused the shooting; because I believe it didn’t pull the trigger. However I do believe the fierce political climate has made this country into a powder keg that is ready to explode.
What matters is that we have the opportunity to have an open discussion about our words and what they really mean. For example, if Palin’s group truly had no guilt they would have kept up that graphic and not go back on their words pretending they never happened.
The defensiveness about this discussion, and the complete dismissal of it to those that support the people accused of the most violent language is disturbing to me.
In summary.
“Kolb explained that Miller had been elected chairman even after Sheriff Joe Arpaio made a personal appearance for tea party candidate Thomas Morrissey.”
The above quote is from the link in the blog post. I wonder why after all these years we haven’t heard a peep from the right about Sheriff Arpaio playing politics??? Only after we hear the voice of reason from Sheriff Dupnik do we hear the right cry foul.
Hey Mark, I pay attention, and I have not heard a single credible reporter accuse Sarah Palin directly of causing the shooting. What they have all said it is language and imagery such as the type that Palin, et al. use that have an influencing effect, particularly on unstable individuals.
The Pima County sheriff, stated opinions but DID NOT cite specifics, and yet it was the RW media that recoiled in horror and went for cover, instead of owning what they know to be their issue.
So please, QUIT TRYING TO POISON THE WELL, and try to stay on topic. Thank you.
I did not hear Sarah ramble on I saw a well thought on response to the attacks she has been under by the far left and the amin stream media in this country. Personally I don’t think she should have said anything as she owes none of them any type of explanation since she did nothing wrong, but the far left and the media in this country all suffer from PDS, just wait in 2013 when the new president appoints Palin secretary of the inetrior and off shore drilling and drilling in Alaska is made wide open, their heads are going to explode!
If she did nothing wrong why did she feel the need to take down her cross hairs target map? And…why did she use the phrase “blood libel”? Doesn’t she ever think of the consequences before she acts?
I don’t know why she took it down if it had been mine I would not have. It did not stand for what liberals tried to make it out to be, too bad she felt comple to appease the far left like that.
I wish I could say she took it down because she felt bad. I honestly don’t believe that is what motivated her to take it down. I think it was a calculated political move. Sad. She does not seem to have what most people would consider normal emotions. She’s all about herself.
again Anon not sure what she was suppose to feel bad about. What that represented had nothing to do with the tragedy in Arizona, the only people who are trying to make it such are liberals and the Palin hating main stream media in this ocuntry,
I don’t know about you guys…but I feel this is such a sad time in our country. For both sides. It’s heartbreaking. Where do we go from here if neither side wants to work together?
Didn’t see Palin in the crowd at tonights memorial in Tucson. Her quest for the Presidency in 2012 is, I believe, officially over.
leave it up to a liberal to make this event a political event also just like last weekends shooting, you people just never stop.
It was noted conservative David Frum who suggested that Palin should make a visit to Tucson to demonstrate her ability to lead the nation during troubled times. I suppose he looks like a liberal through a Tea Party lens.
The “real world intervenes…”
What motivated Jared Loughner in the real world? Not the daydreams of Sheriff Dupnick or Keith Olbermann, but the real world.
What the hell does this mean?
I’ll simplify it for you, steve:
What motivated Jared Loughner?
His environment, Roland. His environment. Tucson, where even republicans resign in fear of Tea Party violence.
RM, what I am referring to as “the real world” is not Loughner but reality. While there has been an amazing to see well orchestrated effort to deflect all blame for this shooting away from anyone on the right wing, the reality is that four REPUBLICANS quit for fear of their own life from their own party!!! America is weakened when people are SCARED to participate.
Loughner IS the reality. His violent actions sparked the flames you all are throwing. Folks like you wanted to use him as the prime example of violence incited by right wing vitriol. But, now that Loughner was found to have had nothing to do with crazy right wingers, you are trying to salvage your precarious position by bringing in other junk. I seriously doubt that four Republican staffers resigned in fear for their lives.
There is no doubt that our political climate is currently filled with invective. I don’t know that it has ever been free of it, actually. There may be more people out there who are more angry than ever, but I would invite Reid, Pelosi and the rest of their gang to ponder the wisdom of passing Obamacare in the fashion they did. That bill is one of the largest (both in scope and in word count), most influential bills ever passed into law. It was put together behind closed doors after Pelosi and Obama promised a grace period where the bill would be published online. To get it passed, bare naked payoffs were made to obstinate pols holding out for pork. All the while, the President snarkily proclaimed that Republicans can come along for the ride, but they gotta sit in the back seat. I don’t ever recall a President being so unabashedly partisan.
Do you think it appropriate that a President comes out and tells almost half the country that their opinion doesn’t count? Maybe his words at that time made you feel good…your Prez sticking it to those evil right wingers. Just realize that substantive adversarial rhetoric used to poke critics in the face while tinkering with something as deeply personal as one’s healthcare will trump a stupid “targeting map” any day when it comes to deepening the partisan divide in this country.
Add to that the second half of the double-whammy in Arizona, illegal immigration, and it’s definitely no surprise there are a lot of frustrated folks out there.
When compared to what set the original Boston tea partiers off and how they reacted, I’d say Americans are a lot more tolerant nowadays.
Yes, yes, Roland, the evil health care reform bill. Never mind that during the debate a CBS/Time poll showed that almost 60% of the American people supported something much stronger: a national health care plan. Who does the Tea Party want to take their country back from? The American people?
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 75% of Likely U.S. Voters want to change the law, while only 18% want it left alone. Those figures include 20% who want the law repealed and nothing done to replace it, 28% who want it repealed and then have its most popular provisions put into a new law and 27% who say leave the law in place but get rid of the unpopular provisions.
A Rasmussen report of “likely voters” isn’t reflective of the views of the American people, which is who the CBS/Time poll surveyed.
Oh but a poll done by two leftwing news organizations is? ….OMG that is hysterical…..thanks for the laughs……
Actually in their words the four staffers did resign in fear for their lives. As I quoted above “‘I don’t want to take a bullet for anyone’.
Dont be so sure that he had NOTHING to do with right wing paranoia. He had many ramblings of “we cant trust the government….” lets look at the election cycle and see what side preaches that….
Your version of the healthcare bill was very much a revisionist history. Yes it is one of the biggest bills in scope and word count(although I wonder how long it is compared to the patriot act), yet it took a full year to pass. There were some despicable backroom deals but there are in any contentious bill. Wasn’t it the medicare part D bill where the republican leadership threatened someones seat to make them vote for it? or the time boehner handed out tobacco money on the floor of the house to sway votes? I am not defending the backroom deals but dont pretend to be disgusted NOW. How many times did republicans sit in on the meetings(chuck Grassley) and get things they wanted in the bill then go out publicly and lie about it(chuck grassley) and say they could not support it.
SO he said that in context of they were proving time and again they had no interest in working with him It was trent lott, speaker at the time, who said that they were going to oppose everything he did and run against a do nothing congress. When do you recall a time when the minority party opposed 100% of everything?
Actually and this is a great myth of the current tea party, what set the original tea party off was a corporate tax cut. The East india company got a tax cut that no one else received thus making it near impossible for an independent tea shop to exist(sound familiar) so they all got together, anonymously, and resisted. There was not one gun involved. I maintain that they would of thrown about 95% of the current congress off the ship with the tea if they were here now.
Actually the resignation by Anthony Miller seems to be more from he just was tired of the infighting. I would not make a too big of a deal out of four locals resinging especially since the shooting ad nothing to do with the Tea Party or anyone associated with it.
Notalib,
You really crack me up! ” I don’t want to take a bullet for anyone.”
Interesting way to express frustration with ” infighting”.