Earlier today Republican attorney Jonathan Steitz announced his candidacy for the 22nd State Senate district seat currently held by Democratic State Sen. Bob Wirch. The press release announcing Steitz’s candidacy noted Steitz previously owned his own event management and production company, but curiously the press release did not mention the state tax warrants levied against Steitz.
Then again, the press release didn’t say Steitz was a successful businessman.
Wow you guys really got worked up about the “comrade” thing huh? The fact of the matter is, the modern day Labor movement is just repackaged Communism/Socialism. It failed in the Soviet Union, it failed in Detroit, and it is failing here in Kenosha.
I too am just a decent guy trying to stand up for what I believe in, I want America to be everything that it should be. Your attempts to paint me into a corner as a party-line Republican really don’t hold much water. I support the freedom to choose who to marry, the freedom to choose what to put in your own body, and the freedom for a woman to choose what to do with hers. I also support the freedom to seek employment without having to pay dues and join a union. In your fury over my use of the word “comrade” you failed to address any of the points I made in my previous post. I honestly would be interested to hear your defense of forced unionism…how can you be pro-choice when it comes to abortion but not when it comes to union membership…it seems a little inconsistent.
If a worker benefits via a genuine voice on the job, increased wages and improved health insurance and pension, they should pay dues to the entity that bargained for it: their union. That’s called ” fair ” in the English language. I don’t know what the communists would call it.
You’re absolutely free to seek work without having to pay dues or join a union. Move to a right to work state or go to work for a non-union employer, like Wal-Mart. There’s absolutely nothing holding you back.
Your turn to produce, Mark. Where’s that screen shot of Wirch supporting the union backed boycott of local businesses?
Despite the name, communism as exemplified in the Soviet Union was not communism anymore more than the National Socialist of Germany were socialists…
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=235239
This is what Mr. B was referring to.
I work in the private sector and would never join a union. If I felt the terms of my employment were unfair, I would not try to extort higher wages or benefits from my employer, I would go find a new job. I have several friends and family members who are teachers, and are extremely frustrated with the fact that they are forced to join the teachers union in order to work in their chosen profession. They also have plenty of first-hand stories of how union practices (tenure, etc) actually harm the quality of education.
Thanks for finally providing the link.
It demonstrates that there is no evidence whatsoever that Wirch supported this effort. In fact, it’s entirely possible that shortly after his office saw it up a pretty heated conversation took place, which is likely why it went down.
How long was it up? Did you call Wirch’s office to get a comment? Did you call the Kenosha Dems to get a comment? How long did the boycott last? Is it still going on? Could angry democrats in Kenosha County have done something unilaterally before weighing all the consequences? Is this probably just a great big non-story?
Really this boycott list was more Mr. B’s issue than mine. I just somehow became responsible for providing the link. I think it reflects poorly more on the Kenosha Democratic Party than on our Senator in all fairness. It probably IS a great big non-story, but that is what the original post was as well.
Ed I would be curious if you could expand on that…my history professor (and avowed member of the Labor Party of UK) made a similar remark, claiming that Marx’s vision of Communism had never been fully implemented.
I personally am against Unions/Collectivism, I don’t believe it can work. I think people have the right to form and join unions, but they should not be able to monopolize labor markets or use the force of law to exert their will on employers.
ok Mark a few things need to be corrected. NO ONE is FORCED to join a union. Its sad you have such a disdain for America since you dont think unions can work. We are currently on 235 years and were going strong until the kochs bankrolled the tea party but we will overcome that.
Secondly, No frustration with the free trade agreements that have helped ship our jobs overseas? or do you think Americans should be getting $5 a day for a 12 hour day with no standards or protections?
So Jeff if you are a teacher and want to work in Kenosha you don’t have to join the union?
No you have to because the majority want a union , but you should be able to get a job and quickly get the signatures necessary to decertify the bad ole union once you get hired. probably get it done before the first paycheck.
Actually Elliot, you are correct. You don’t have to join the union…but you do have to pay union dues because it is a union shop and you do get all the benefits the union negotiates.
That is what closed-shop unionism is. If you want the job you are forced to join the union…it is how they run the school district down here. I think wages should be left open to market forces. Claiming that without unions we would all be working for $5 per day is a little absurd.
When I see people trot out this tired Koch rhetoric I kind of tune out. I don’t know how they became such bogeymen to the left. Koch Industries ranks 83rd on the list of political donors, while 10 of the top 15 spots are held by unions. Why is it OK for unions to exert all of this influence but not businessmen? At least the Kochs use their own money.
(Since we have some sticklers for sources here: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A)
mark all you have to do is take a form and get 51% of the people in the union to sign it and then presto! no more union. Its that simple. Its why Unions are pure democracy in the workplace. You are not forced to do anything you dont want. If unions are so bad you should be able to disband the union with a couple hours of talking to co workers. No problem at all.
Before you do that try reading the PreAmble to the Constitution.
Also the Kochs are 83rd on trackable money and much higher on untrackable money.
So are you saying that if the people who do not want to participate in the Union are only a 49% minority, that they have no rights of free association? They shouldn’t have to join the Union and then disband it, they should never be forced to join in the first place.
Even if Koch Industries “untrackable” money were counted, and they were in the top 10, what would be the problem with them doing what they please with their own money? Why is it OK for unions to wield massive political clout and not private businesses?
I am not up on my Marx/Engels/Lenin but I know many actual communists and socialists consider the Soviet Union to have been state capitalism with a dictator with state controlled production and economics…hardly a workers paradise.
Cuba and North Korea are essentially Stalinist dictatorships as well and not communist nations either…it’s been over 40 years since my Politics of the Chinese Revolution course and I don’t remember squat…but starting from an agrarian economy through the cultural revolution to its current Confucian capitalism…China isn’t communist either.
So it is only true Communism if it doesn’t fail? The thing I have never understood about Communism is that if a “worker’s paradise” is created…who will provide the jobs? Why would anyone want to work hard, or work at all for that matter? I think the profit motive is human nature, and if that is removed, what reason does anyone have to take any risk on new business ventures or anything?
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” can never work, and will result in serfdom across the board. Call me crazy, but I like a world where I can work hard, educate myself, and be rewarded accordingly. Organized labor seems to cater to less motivated, less educated, less productive members of society, and I think that is wrong.
48+ percent voted against scott Walker and now walker is pushing his agenda through saying there is no room whatsoever for compromise.
unions dont yield “massive political clout” its that simple.
Mark,
You’re wandering in an abstract world with no bearing in reality. Not everyone can get an education and pursue a career of their choosing. Who will work in the factories? Who will make the things you want to buy? Who will work in the grocery stores? Who will pick your vegetables and fruit? Who will plow your roads and haul your garbage away? Someone has to do these jobs, or someone like you can’t go about improving your lot in life.
Your ilk doesn’t seem to acknowledge this reality so occasionally you need to be reminded, like when the garbage workers went on strike in New York back in 1975.
There’s no such thing as a self made man/woman. Everyone depends on others for their success, to some degree. There’s no getting around it. Guys like you don’t seem to understand this, or won’t. If employers had a natural tendency toward fairness we wouldn’t need unions, but they generally don’t, so we do.
And the Kochs first became bogeymen when their dad, Fred, helped found the John Birch Society, which promptly called Dwight Eisenhiower a secret communist. Fifty years later David Koch is calling Obama a secret socialist. The family has a long history of suggesting that democratically elected American presidents are actually manchurian candidates.
They’ve earned the title of bogeymen.
I wanted to make sure this comment got read, hence the repeat.
Mark,
Thanks for finally providing the link.
It demonstrates that there is no evidence whatsoever that Wirch supported this effort. In fact, it’s entirely possible that shortly after his office saw it up a pretty heated conversation took place, which is likely why it went down.
How long was it up? Did you call Wirch’s office to get a comment? Did you call the Kenosha Dems to get a comment? How long did the boycott last? Is it still going on? Could angry democrats in Kenosha County have done something unilaterally before weighing all the consequences? Is this probably just a great big non-story?
There is no reason the man plowing the roads and taking the garbage away should make more than a college graduate, as they do here in Kenosha because of Public Employee unions. There is no reason someone working in an Automotive factory on the assembly line should make $35 per hour. If market forces dictate that that wage will be competitive, then that is fine, but it is not OK when it is driven artificially high by labor organizations.
If I am living in an abstract world with no bearing in reality, then the left is living in a fantasy world with no bearing in global economic realities or fiscal responsibility. You worker’s paradise is a prison for producers.
Walker’s agenda is not being passed based on a simple 51% popular vote. Walker was elected, the Republican Majority in the Senate was elected, and the House majority in the Assembly was elected. That is how a Republic functions, which is what America actually is, we use democratic process but we are not a Democracy. What Walker is asking of Public employees is laughably insignificant and they are acting like the sky is falling.
If unions don’t yield massive political clout, why is Trumka the most frequent visitor to the White House? Why have they been able to hold up legislation
Damm those workers in America making living wages. Those bastards…we do agree on one thing though, they should not make more than college graduates so lets start paying college graduates way more. We can start with the teachers.
* Walker was elected 52-48, check out the election results. We actually dont live in a republic persay http://bloggingblue.com/2011/03/18/what-are-we/
* since when is giving up your rights laughably insignificant? hundreds of thousands of Wisconsinites would disagree with you Mark, thats why they stormed the capitol. I would also say the fact that walker and the repubs are trying to take these rights away show how signifcant that they are.
* Do you have a link to trumka being the most frequent visitor at the WHite House? Lets say he is, shouldnt labor be one of the main influences of a democratic administration since they are who voted Obama in?
Can you tell me what legislation they have held up? I think you are thinking the Koch brothers and the republicans in senate filibustering everything.
Mark,
There is nothing in the Constitution of the United States or the Declaration of Independence about the free market or capitalism. Your free market idolatry is just that; your idolatry. The so-called free market is not a law, like gravity. It’s a man made construct. It is not the real as opposed to what you consider the artificiality of the labor movement. You’re wallowing in a kind of fundamentalism. The Ayn Rand kind.
And I mentioned earlier that I’m not a communist so I don’t know who you’re talking to when you say ” your workers paradise”.
-We DO live in a republic. If the journalistic integrity of the OP is any indication, I don’t give much credit to your bloggingblue link.
-Collective Bargaining is not a right. If these people are so upset about their new working conditions, maybe they should step aside, there are plenty of people who would be thrilled to get the deal public employees get for wages and benefits.
-You argued before that Unions did not wield massive political clout, then you admit that Trumka/labor are the ones who voted Obama in.
-What legislation have they held up? Oh I dunno, how about the BUDGET REPAIR BILL?
Thats all for this afternoon boys. Have fun planning the worker’s revolution, I am off to the golf course.
“Collective Bargaining is not a right.”
Says you. There’s plenty of folks who believe collective bargaining is a right.
May you double bogey your way to a frustrating afternoon.
Wow, you guys were busy beavers today!
Mark, maybe I missed it, but maybe you could take a minute to answer the question I asked you HERE.
Sure no problem.
I am not blaming Bob Wirch directly for the job losses. It is no secret by now that I am no fan of Unions, I am blaming the UAW for driving the automotive jobs out of Kenosha, and the KEA for refusing to work with the KUSD to prevent layoffs. Bob Wirch is a shill for Big Labor, so I suppose indirectly maybe I am blaming him.
Paul Ryan understands the value of businesses and the private sector. The only thing I am blaming Paul Ryan for is taking far too moderate of an approach with his budget proposal. At least he has proposed something though.
Steve funny you mention Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged is sitting right here on my bookshelf alongside Karl Marx and Howard Zinn…
The UAW did not drive the jobs out of Kenosha Paul ryan shilling for Free trade agreements, favored trade status of China, etc…did. Along with some serious mismanagement.
He understands the value of business and the private sector? you mean in China?
Nafta has had a far greater devastating effect on Wisconsin than anything else has the last 15 years.