Topic of the Week: recall elections

So let’s talk about the 9 possible recall elections.

Will any of the 9 current state senators (3 Democrats and 6 Republicans) lose their seats in recall elections?


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44 thoughts on “Topic of the Week: recall elections

  1. Yes.

    I think Kapanke will lose.

    Holperin would have been in trouble if he’d have garnered a candidate who was not a psychopath.

    Hopper will face a tough fight.

  2. I see a huge ground swell of support for the republican recalls,and forsee all of them loosing their seats.No dem will come close to loosing theirs.

  3. Kapanke, Holperin and Hansen are probably gone. Hopper and Werch might be in trouble. I will say Democrats are putting a lot of pressure on themselves to take back the senate. If they come up short it will not be good. In the end its looking like a plus one or two in EITHER direction.

    1. I disagree with your assertion on Holperin. That lady is crazy, and has no name id. Hansen has a fight on his hand, however if there’s a primary (currently is) he benefits.

      Hopper has problems, not because of his district, but because he’s a walking PR Disaster (mike sheridan disease as I like to call it.)

      Wirch is an utterly unlikable man, however that district is way better for Democrats than any of the seats up for Recall.

      If you’d like a real ranking of the seats likely to flip it goes like this (Based on performance, candidate, etc.)

      Cowles (Will jump holprin and possibly hansen if Rich Langan is not running and someone else is.)

      I can’t understate the level of crazy Kim Simac is, and she’s going to have to raise a truck load of money to offset the easy mail/tv against her. (It’s easy because of the things she says)

  4. [tap tap tap] Is this thing on?

    I do not think Sen Wirch is in much trouble. Even if the BAG approves their signatures, that does not mean the tricked signers will actually vote. I watched a significant amount of the trickery first-hand. Generally speaking, the signatures obtained by the paid out-of-towners did not come from the likely voter demographic.

    Atop this is the issue of candidates. The declared candidate has quite a few weaknesses. Eg there was been a lot of local discontent over health insurance for county executives. (It is my understanding I have not researched myself that) Fred Ekornaas voted to keep the free insurance for the execs. Now he is gunning against ‘greedy public workers’. Eep!

    Word is, the GOP is not satisfied with Mr. Ekornaas. Dan Hunt, operator of the recall Wirch effort, said on Thursday he hos not ruled out his own candidacy. Dan Hunt has a big recall fraud bull’s-eye on his political chest.

    Rumors persist that local GOP players are trying to convince someone to run as a Trojan Horse candidate against Sen Wirch in a Democratic Primary phase. It gives them a free 2nd chance to knock off Sen Wirch. It gives them a talking point “even Democrats don’t like Sen Wirch”. Again these are only rumors but one can understand the strategy from the GOP perspective.

    Add up all of the above, and so far no strong GOP candidate is visible anywhere on the horizon. Sen Wirch has to be considered the likely to keep his seat so long as no credible opponent exists.

  5. Holperin was ahead on a Lakeland Times webiste poll 72%-28%…If Hopper survives, I’ll be shocked

  6. Hansen I’m not even sure if he’s even getting recalled or not – all considering about there were many signatures were on tribal land which is no where in his district and so many shady ways the signatures were received. ( Yes I am not dropping this subject, I am still very furious my little brother was told it was all right to sign it when he is seventeen and said it was for recalling Cowles. ) Plus, getting a call that my name was on the recall sheet and the person who put me on it was a former friend of mine…

    Either way – I do think he faces a fair challenge, if he is recalled. And I think Wirch’s and Holperin’s might be a bit tough but Wirch has more of a chance. However I heard Holperin is facing against a wingnut and a crazy, so that might make him more solid in that sense. I would put the order of risk for them: Wirch → Hansen → Holperin.

    Kapanke and Harsdorf are out. No questions about that. Kloppenburg’s numbers seemed to prove the point to me. Hopper and Alberta are going to have a hard fight. I’m not sure about Cowles or Olsen, but the more Cowles shows himself here in District and the more excuses he gives – the more people are are wary about him. Another important thing to note is Outagamie County brought in a Democratic County Executive.

    1. Can you expand on you observations? The way I see it Kapanke is likely Dem due to the strength of the opponent and the partisan nature of the district. Hopper I think is lean Dem due to his personal problems and also the strength of the opponent. Harsdorf is tossup due to the Klop’s performance, but I do not know how strong Moore is as a candidate. Olsen would also be tossup due to the strength of the opponent, but the district seems a bit more Republican. Darling would be Lean R in that while the district is pretty Republican, Pasch is a strong opponent. However, I do not know enough about Langan to know whether he is a strong opponent or not, but you seem to know more about the Fox Valley than I do so some more info on Cowles would be appreciated.

      As for the Dems, I think Wirch is likely Dem due to the strongest potential opponent, Sam Kerkman, passing on the race. I would say Hansen is tossup since Nygren is a strong opponent and give that same ranking to Holperin in that while the district is pretty Republican, Kim Simac is certainly not the strongest option.

      1. Kapanke is likely to be removed for a variety of reasons: the partisan nature of the district, the strength of his opponent, and the fact he has been digging his own political grave so to speak with his exaggerations and lies.

        Harsdorf for all of her standards on voter ID is hypocritical because her vote was illegal. I heard that Moore is becoming a strong candiate against her, and people are growing behind her in that respect. Plus, take in account that they voted Kloppenburg – I think while not as wide of a margin as Kapanke, I do think Harsdorf is definitely out.

        Hopper all depends because of how strong the opponent is as you said, plus that whole idea he was supporting unions before Scott Walker came along. I however believe hardcore Republicans like NotaLib will go out to vote for him saying that it was ‘only a mistake’ and ‘we should be forgiving’ to them while demonizing liberals. It will be close, despite the strength, however since this is the same challenger he faced last time – this will prove to be interesting.

        Darling will be similar as Hopper, it leans a Republican District despite having a strong opponent, however I have heard from many down there they haven’t been able to contact her in months. She literally does not show up in the district at all, to the point many people who work for her don’t even know what she looks like. Plus, she only won by a small margin just like Hopper did.

        Olsen will be a tough one, it will be suburbia vs. rural communities. However his opponent is pro-rural, farmland, and so on – something that Olsen stabbed in the back by accepting this bill. They were told how dangerous it was for small settlements like that, so I don’t think they’re going to be forgiving.

        I think the media is giving Cowles too much credit. Cowles was able to keep his seat as long as he did because he appeared to be a moderate who served the people, and he never had a strong candidate against him. For the most part, he has ran unopposed. Not only that, he had the trust and respect of people in the district – my grandfather and grandmother who were lifetime union members and liberals included. And I have a feeling this can come back to haunt him. I’m not say it’s fair because he genuinely actually may have not known – considering he actually answered these calls. However, I have a feeling if 3rd Party ads start running against Langan and demonizing him, this could be a killing blow to Cowles’ career. Langan from what I heard locally is a moderate who has strong principles and has lifetime Republicans backing him up who felt slighted. Cowles is is in an illusion of a ‘safe’ district, but I believe that might not actually be the case with how people vote. I think Cowles is aware he is not in a red district, but a possible purple one. That is why even before it was revealed they had enough signatures, he started putting campaign ads on the air.

        Wirch, looking more at things — he looks safe. Most of the signatures from what I heard are people who don’t actually know what is going on with the drama in politics in Wisconsin. And yes, it is very much possible to avoid the news if you wanted to – I have many friends and family that do because it simply depresses them. Chances are, he is in a safe area because he has many supporters.

        Holperin might be going against an extremist, but the media has a way to make even extremists look sensible depending on the presentation and the packaging. This is why I’m acknowledging he might be in more danger than Hansen.

        Hansen if he is properly recalled? Will definitely face a tough fight but he has a lot of supporters in his district as well. It will all depend on who is stronger. And the question is – if so many mistakes were made in the recall, with trickery, with going out of district, with many other things – do you think those people who recalled him will vote against him? I know I wouldn’t even I was in his district.

        I think what wingnut Republicans don’t like to acknowledge is this isn’t just about Union rights – it’s a bad bill overall. Sure, it hurts unions but there are many other places that are hurt too, including small businesses, small farms, and even rural communities in general.

          1. Nancy was not a popular county executive in this area, if I remember correctly her last year of office she got into a bar altercation downtown after a board meeting. I think her running is great with all of the baggage she will bring

          2. I’m not frankly sure. At the time I hated her because I was more far right than NotaLib and suggested that certain people should be culled in society like the mentally disabled, the people with emotional disabilities, gays, lesbians, and anyone who wasn’t Christian. Everyone else was bottom feeders. I am not joking, I’m not sure how I became that way but I think it had to be because I used to listen to Talk Radio all the time throughout High School — although I remained very quiet about it a lot of my early comics and novels were based around that mentality and glorifying it.

            I’m looking up on her, but I know she was fairly unpopular with kneejerk conservatives.

              1. Or rather why my grandparents had low taxes when she was actually in there. That explains a lot why they’re so pissy now having to pay more taxes.

    2. I’m with you T.
      However, Wirch’s district is so much better than the others, we’re talking about a district Barrett won in a terrible wave year.

      Cowles will have trouble if there’s a candidate. If there is a woman with some name id, who’s moderate on tax issues he will have some serious problems.

      Wirch isn’t in any trouble at all… Buying the Republican hype on that doesn’t make him in trouble. 🙂

  7. T, the GAB ahas said there are over 17,000 approved signatures on the RECALL FLEEBAGGER HANSEN. He will very likely be voted out he barely won re election last time and everywhere you go you here people are really upset with him in this district. Cowles will easily survive his recall.

      1. I’m sorry for the flippant remark, but Dave Hansen crushed Chad Fradette by 25,000 votes. I guess in your world 65% of the vote is barely winning.

        55% of the vote in 2004 (a year where Bush beat Kerry in that seat)

        Sure, he had a close race in 2000 against a sitting senator. But in the rematch he achieved 55% of the vote.

        So to defend my “are you on drugs?” question, there are the facts and figures.

        So Notalib, this information is easily accessible on the interwebs, no need to have me google it for you.


    1. The GAB doesn’t verify the signatures, they are just one process before they move onto the next one NotaLib.

      1. MADISON, Wis. (WTAQ) – The Government Accountability Board has verified more than enough required signatures to trigger a recall election for Senator Dave Hansen, but challenges remain.

        GAB spokesman Reid Magney says staff eliminated nearly 1,800 signatures that did not have proper basic information.

        “Is there a signature, is there a name, is there a complete address that includes the city, town or village,” Magney says. “And is there a complete date.”

        GAB staff is recommended verified nearly 17,100 signatures. But Democrats have challenged more than 5,500 signatures.

        “Then we will look at additional evidence to try and verify that,” said Magney.

        GAB staff is now reviewing those challenges, and will then chose which ones to recommend to the Board to make a final decision, which could come at the end of May.

        1. As I said – the Government Accountability Board does not verify all the signatures.

          They only count the ones with mistakes and they don’t count the ones that are not in the district if they’re filled out properly. To be honest, the 17,100 sounds like the ones that are added up as the mistakes and completely unfilled ones. It adds up to that amount so they crossed off the names that didn’t put their addresses and other things on the list. They have yet to hit the ones that are out of district – and that will be a big blow because that’s over 2,000 out of district.

    2. That is exactly why the people had to find the signatures themselves, furthermore: only one member of the GAB said that it was all right. Someone in Chippewa Falls can’t sign in Green Bay, nor can someone from Upper Michigan. Or all those signatures from Oneida. Unless you think it’s all right as long as Republicans get what they want, which seems to be your constant mantra how you live with yourself.

      And frankly, I’m not sure if Cowles will make it. The man running against him is a moderate and popular amongst veterans and Republicans who are disenfranchised who don’t just trail behind Republicans no matter what. He has made up too many excuses in the times he has showed up instead of directly answering questions. A lot of us were on the fence in the district, waiting for any reasoning that was beyond talking points but him proving to be spineless and having no excuse by avoiding the subject I think did a lot more damage to him.


      Enough with the “fleebagger” nonsense, Nota, not to mention the “ALL CAPS” stuff. Getting really tiresome. We already know how you feel about Dave Hanson. So, enough already.

      In any event, Nota, you know as well as we do that the minority party does what it has to do in order to advance and/or protect the interests of its collective constituents. (Just ask Mitch McConnell about the use of his fellow Republican senators about their unprecedented use of the filibuster.)

      That said, Nota, let’s just agree to disagree on what the Fab 14 did, all right?

      In our view, they did the right thing, they did what they thought, in their heart of hearts, was the right thing to do. They did what they felt they had to do in order to protect their constituents.

      Clearly, you disagree with that, and it is your right to do that. Just stop assuming that “angels are on your side” in doing it when you write something about it.

      The rest of us here think that the Fab 14 were just doing their jobs.

      Anyway, Nota, you seem to have been “stepping up your game” of late. Don’t backslide.

      Besides, when you use a term like “fleebagger”, it just reminds all of us how much the feelings of people like you were hurt by the whole “teabagger” kerfuffle.

      You know what I’m talking about, right?

      Tea Partiers thought that hanging tea bags off of their hats was cool, and thought that saying stuff like, “Let’s teabag them before they teabag us”, was the ultimate in cleverness. THEN, progressives pointed out to them that “teabagging” was a term used in the gay community for a particular kind of sex act, and began mercilessly mocking them for their cocky (pun intended), “balls to the wall”, and clueless embrace of terms like “teabagger”, “teabag” and “teabagging”.

      (*laughing*) Yeah, it still entertains me.

      So, anyway, Nota, there’s lots of reasons for you to avoid using the term, “fleebagger”. When you use it, it doesn’t cast you in the best light, and you should really think about dropping it from your repetoire.

  8. I think one thing no one is mentioning is that these are recall elections. There are many people who do not beleive in recalling candidates just because they don’t vote the way they want them to. There is potentially a factor here that no one can really predict. You have to remember this barely happens in this state and even the country. Also these elections are not going to be held for another 2 months or so.

    1. Pete,

      in an off time election, you think people who are D democrats or R republicans are going to change their ways if they don’t agree with the recalls?

      statistically speaking that’s an unlikely proposition.

      1. People do it all the time. It’s the reason why recalls don’t succeed. They may not agree with that politician on their stances. Many are not going to boot them from his/her elected term because they disagree with him/her. Recalls are for misbehavior like not doing your job and illegal acts. Another thing to keep in mind is that a PPP/Daily Kos poll was released that included questions on the 6 republican senators facing recall. There were differences in those that approved of their job performances and those that supported a recall by enough to effect the outcome of a number of races. It shows 3 seats flipping to Democrats. But you must keep in mind that poll was taken over two months ago right in the heat of it all by a liberal leaning poll company and only hows 3 likely gains TOPS. Also I find it a little interesting how no Democrats were included in that poll. Holprin is gone and Hansen is likely gone. You’re looking at a pickup of one or two seats. That would be a failure and a set back for dems considering there is a “wave” of support in this state for them.

        1. It’s the reason why recalls don’t succeed.

          Except the Recalls have succeeded for four Republicans officially. Oops.

          You’re also putting a lot of faith and hope in the Hansen Recall effort, who all stopped at nothing to get signatures – to a point it’s almost embarrassing with how many they got out of district, of how many people they lied to, and so on. Even if they are counted as legitimate – would the people who signed it go out to vote against him? Or will they feel betrayal at how they were tricked and vote for him?

          Plus, you got to keep in mind, the Republicans are upsetting more and more people across Wisconsin with more bills. Teachers. Nurses. Farmers. Construction Workers. Rural communities. Attorneys. Policemen. Firefighters. Who will be next on the chopping block? If an R or a D is behind the name – who would the people vote for? Well, I suppose that all depends on the privileges you have. Do you have the privilege to know that your livelihood is safe?

          Considering you’re conservative however, I suppose you will find some means to justify it saying it’s only a phase. However, if each phase keeps being ignited into another phase and begin piling up – will the Republicans really be as safe as you claim? Cry as you like and say it’s only for ‘real problems’, but all takes one thing to send a whole history of loyalty to your clients toppling down. It has happened in many other places for even lesser reasons and they often succeeded.

          1. Dems possibly pick up 2 or 3. I’m thinking more like 1
            Republicans possibly 1 or 2. I’m thinking more like 1

            That seems pretty fair to me. Unless you guys see otherwise. Considering your a liberal however, I suppose you will find some means to justify its not a phase.

            Actually what are everyones predictions? Come on lets really hear them everyone. What gain would be disapointing? Only 1? 2? 3? Zach not sure if you already did a post on this but I think you should do a couple of recall prediction posts between now and the recall elections asking readers what they think will happen. I’m interested to read these. What’s a failure and whats a success? let me guess +1 seat is a success.

            1. Pete, I think you are underrating the difficulty a character like Rob Cowles could have. You’ve got the most expensive media market in the state and a guy who’s name ID isn’t as high as it should be (Due to never having to run for reelection… ever) If there’s a candidate who has some name ID he could flip.

              Personally, my prediction is 0 pick ups for Rs. 2 pick ups for Ds.

              The D problem is they recruited their best candidates in places that are the hardest. If you had a Sandy Pasch or Fred Clark running against Rob Cowles or Sheila Harsdorf (or even Randy Hopper) I’d say they could walk away with 4. However Rich Langan isn’t that guy, and I’m uncertain Shelly Moore is either.

              I go back to my ranking above to show my predictions based on liklihood.

              (I think Hopper is in trouble simply because of his terrible decisions at every turn… Sheridan disease will getya.)

            2. When the conservatives are ramming through legislations that will hurt their own base, and it still appearing in the news – I would think that would make other conservatives not as fired up as liberals. Just so that can keep their own power, they are putting in legislation so that they can keep their own jobs – example: Loan Sharks.

              The comment about +1 is laughable because everyone knew that two of those districts are suburbia with a.) no jobs in the hearts dealing with industry and b.) pushed away all the farmlands and local farms to become a sprawling suburbia. I would go as far to say that they often actually work and entertain themselves in the places they detest so much.

              The one that swung in the democrat’s direction – is what generally the rest of Wisconsin outside of Waukesha, Ozaukee, Washington, Milwaukee, and Dane County are like. This should not be a good sign for Republicans on the principle that they lost the common man whom they catered to for years. A district they had for sixteen years. What should have been a reliable area to win, ended up not being so.

              Just as the pendulum swung against the liberals in 2010, it’s now swinging back at the conservatives who are proving once again – they’re only conserving is their own jobs and profits. That’s why they’re changing the rules in the middle of the game, because they know what’s coming.

              This leaves with my prediction:
              Kapanke is out. Harsdorf is out. Hopper, Cowles, Darling, and Olsen are up in the air with it being close.

              Hansen (if those recall signature are legit) and Holperin are up in the air and will be close. Wirch stays.

              1. I think your prediction is a possibility.

                I think Harsdorf will be more difficult. But if Shelley Moore can run a campaign and get her name out it’s truly possible. The problem with that race is that neither candidate can use TV. You have to buy Minneapolis TV and it’s just not economically feasible.

                1. Keep in mind though: Kloppenburg took that area and Kloppenburg was nothing more than a sacrifical lamb in that sense. I think if she gets around like Kloppenburg did, she will win with no problem.

                  1. I just don’t think the Kloppenberg stuff is really applicable, but that’s just my sense of things.

                    Plus, there were millions of dollars in that race, and there won’t be that much in this one (likely)

        2. It’s the reason why recalls don’t succeed.

          Which recalls haven’t succeeded here in Wisconsin? I’d love to see you back that claim up.

          1. Haven’t there only been like 2 or 3 recalls that actually removed a politician from office in Wisconsin history? Or did I hear that wrong?

            I’d like to see everyone who signs a recall petition to fork pay the cost of the election if the incumbent wins.

            Sure the bases will get charged up, but ultimately, all I really see any of this doing is making the typical voter even more frustrated at politics and even less engaged.

        3. Pete, I find your assertion on Holperin laughable, as with your position on Hansen.

          You point to 2 month old polling that said that a dead body could beat 3 senators, with 2 more in dead heats against no actual candidate. Since they have drawn good candidates.

          Nygren is the only formidable R candidate they have recruited. He has to escape the primary and stop tripping over his dick (putting out a press release after he refused to vote for a tax cut is a bit silly.) You also have to throw in the fact that it’s likely the press up there will eat him alive over Payday lending (thats a third rail issue with the papers up there)

          As for Holperin, you’re talking about a 50/50 district. I disagree with the belief that he is gone, he will have to fight. The only race anyside could truly say “Goner” Would be Kapanke. The partisan makeup of that district is trending away from him, the best Assembly District for Republicans in that senate district just flipped, and he has no cover from underneath. Also, he is not the same candidate he was when he won in 08. A congressional run where you have to go hard or go home will do that to a Candidate and there will be some residual injury there.

          But asserting that anyone is gone, without looking at the performance or partisan make up of said districts is asinine.

  9. Are you sure? The last time I looked at the GAB website there was a list of failings. The following errors were noted for the Hansen recall petitions:
    536 sheets with 2 different municipalities listed for circulator from different handwriting
    560 sheets with Incomplete circulator address (this is what I quickly noticed)
    176 circular dates that were missing or incorrect

    Forgeries and “deliberate?” incomplete information at the bottom of the recall sheets verifying the authenticity of the gatherers does not speak well for the Colorado corporation contracted to do the work. If I were aWisconsin Republican I would scream breach of contract- but since the system among loyal republican capitalists is to support each other’s deficiencies, that won’t happen. The real motive is probably just to keep the dollars in republican hands.

  10. Zuma I just have to laugh at you. You whine about me using the fitting term FLEEBAGGERS for the 14 WEASLES but yet you call them the fab 14 time and time again, you are such a partisan hack. Turn the tears off ambulance chaser, FLEEBAGGERS they are FLEEBAGGERS they will stay!

    1. Just so ya know, Notalib, I’ve been calling them the Fab 14 just because I know that it gets under the skin of wingnuts like you. (*wink*) I’m actually not that fond of the label. Little too cutesy for my taste.

      But, “fleebaggers”? That’s just lame. And derivatively lame at that. Use it to your heart’s content, but don’t say that I didn’t warn you about how it might make people look at ya. [*Spoiler Alert* It’s NOT pretty.]

      Anyway, Notalib, one of us is definitely a partisan hack. It isn’t me. Ask around.

      So, let’s see what else you had to regurgitate. Oh, yeah, here we go:

      “Turn the tears off [sic] ambulance chaser. . .”

      Is that the best you’ve got, Notalib? (*laughing*) If there are any tears here, dear, sweet, clueless Notalib, they are tears of laughter, directed at you, and the very short period of time it took for you to revert back to form.


      For the record, Notalib, while in your provincial little wingnut world, I imagine that all lawyers are “ambulance chasers”, please be advised that I practice entertainment law, an area of the law which is about as far removed from “ambulance chasing” as the practice of law could be, and as I think about it, about as far removed from it as whatever you have ever written here has been removed from common sense, logic, reason and proper grammar.

      You’re “outgunned” here, Notalib. You will always will be. Just let it go.

      1. Zuma rattled off “but don’t say that I didn’t warn you about how it might make people look at ya.”

        This may surprise you Zuma but what anyone thinks of me matters little to me, I am not as vain as you seem to be that I worry about others opinions. The only people that matter to me would be my wife, my kids, their spouses and my grandkids, what people on a far left blog thinks doe not even make the I REALLY DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK list.

        1. “This may surprise you Zuma but what anyone thinks of me matters little to me…”

          Well, Notalib, inasmuch as your writing reflects a great big bundle of psychological pathologies, a massive inferiority complex being at or very near the top of the list, it would surprise me. I think that all of your bluster is nothing more than the insecure little “child” inside of you doing its best to save face. The best defense, as they say around the elementary schoolyard, is a good offense.

          You care what other people think about you. You care a great deal. Now, IF only you were more astute and could write better, maybe you could do a better job masking that fact.

          In any event, what’s kind of funny about your pseudo-macho posturing in this regard is the fact that when I “. . .warn[ed] you about how it might make people look at ya”, I was really only playfully “warning” you to make a point. While I may actually think that you care a great deal about what other people think about your intellectual shortcomings, it doesn’t really matter that much to me. I notice it, but it only comes up in what I write because I know that it bothers you, and if I mention it, it will definitely get a rise out of you. If you had even the remotest grasp of nuance, you would have recognized that my saying that was just a rhetorical device. “Watch out, they may just think that you’re stupid” to an intelligent person is seen as just that, and ignored. To the actually stupid, it cuts them to the core, and they generally react by saying something like, “I don’t care what other people think”. Well, of course you don’t IF what they think is that you’re stupid. But, as I was saying, not being a student of nuance or of the use of rhetorical devices, not to mention being intellectually challenged, you don’t have the intellectual chops to grasp that.

          There is a part of you deep down that not only cares what I and the others here think, it actually listens to what I and they say, it is responsive to it and it internalizes it.

          Case in point, our exchange under the “Teacher Pay” story ( where you accused me of being a “mindless leftwing hack”.

          As you know, I took the time in a lengthy post to patiently deconstruct what you had said in this regard, and to demonstrate to you factually why your tendency to demagogue your political opponents generally gets you into trouble here. Based upon your response to this post of mine, you, clearly and duly chastised, agreed that I had been right in what I had said. Until this latest post of yours, your comments thereafter reflected a more sober, respectful and seemingly more thoughtful attitude and approach to posting comments.

          That said, Zach’s concurrent advice to you that he was going to have to moderate your comments until you learned to behave yourself probably had the more significant impact on you.

          In any event, Notalib, just saying, with all of the elementary schoolyard pseudo-macho bluster that you can muster, that you don’t care what anybody here has to say about you or thinks about you, doesn’t make it so. You clearly do care, and care a great deal.

          You probably originally thought that you were going to ride into this “far left blog” like some kind of wingnut white knight, fight the heathen progressives, and save the day on behalf of The Wingnut Nation. Instead, you discovered that the people here were far more intelligent and well-spoken than you, capable of regularly and consistently punking you with both hands tied behind their backs.

          And yet, you continue to come back, day in and day out, despite being routinely punked here by one and all. Why? I’ll tell you why, Notalib, it’s because you care what people think about you, and you are desperately trying to prove them wrong about you. The irony is that all you end up doing is reinforce the existing perception of you here as a mindless, inarticulate, intellectually challenged partisan boob.

          I’ve tried both the more confrontational “stick” and the diplomatic, “carrot”/”olive branch” approach with you, and nothing works. You’re just too hard-headed, Notalib. (PLEASE try not to wear THAT like a badge of honor as wingnuts tend to do. It will just serve to make you look all the more dense.)An intelligent and more self-aware person, secure in who they are, would take note of the kinds of reactions that they get from people, especially intelligent and perceptive people, and use them to grow and evolve. An insecure person says the kinds of things that you said in your comment.

          Time to grow, Notalib, not to mention grow up (even at your apparently advanced age). Give personal growth and self-awareness a shot. People will look at you differently, and maybe, just maybe, will take you more seriously, instead of seeing you as just one more example of an unfortunate ideological outlook and a limited intellect.

          In finishing up here, Nota, let me just remind you about an extended exchange that you had with Zach under the “Sarah Palin Gets A Warm Welcome In Wisconsin” story in which EVEN he threw up his hands in frustration with you and your hard-headedness and inability to understand even the simplest of things, and finally just said, “Sometimes you really are a moron”, to you. (

          If even someone as evenhanded and diplomatic to a fault as Zach could say something like that to you, maybe it’s time for you to do some serious self-examination.

          You can say what you want to about not caring what I think about you, not that I believe you when you say that you don’t, but I know for a fact that what Zach thinks about you does matter to you. Put the macho bluster aside, Nota, consider things carefully, and maybe grow a little.

          Do that, and Zach, I and everyone else here will support you in the effort. Fail to do it, and you will remain the butt of jokes here, and the subject of eye rolls, head-shaking and derisive laughter.

  11. The only reasons I keep reading this blog are Zach’s articles and Zuma’s witty ripostes at the resident wingnut.

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