Unfortunately it’s the United States of America. Here when I thought they said they wanted to take the country back, I thought like the Eisenhower years and Leave It To Beaver nostalgia…little did I know they meant the early industrial era of unrestrained air and water pollution, unsafe food, and work safety laws disappearing. Flint MI is the warning shot…Wisconsin changes related to fish farms and ignoring or invalidating federal clean water rules just brings it closer to home. Can’t wait until the air in Los Angeles starts looking like Beijing again!
66 thoughts on “GOP Building A Third World Country”
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They (The WI-GOP Legislature) consider Milwaukee a third world colonial possession with Abele as Walker’s Viceroy.
Ed, I would have thought that, as a progressive, you would have avoided bringing up Flint’s lead problem. After reading the facts about the lead water scandal, you may wish to delete this post and never mention Flint again.
Considering the source of “the facts” it’s a wonder they didn’t blame all nationwide conservative initiated problems on Flint Dems. National Review is a rag! Michigan’s Governor has apologized and taken responsibility therefore he owns it. End of story.
WB, a Governor’s admission of limited culpability does not absolve the Democratic emergency manager, a Democratic run city responsible for treating and monitoring drinking water, and a silent-after-being-informed Barack Obama EPA. If you really think that the Governor’s apology is the “End of story” why do you think Susan Hedman, the EPA’s regional administrator for Flint, has just resigned?
Nomo,
There’s plenty of dirty water to go around. However, by you’re own admission the city was under the control of the republican appointed emergency manager. Democrat or not, marching orders were coming from the top. Try to remember how the chain of command works. At least the Republican governor had the balls to own this and not make the appointed emergency manager the scapegoat. Furthermore, “the democratic run city responsible for treating and monitoring drinking water” was absolved of that responsibility when the emergency manager took over. You do know how this works? Let’s face it Michigan, were I once lived and often visit, is and has going down the tubes. Now, under this governor, the stopper has been pulled on a much wider drain. Do some research and I know you’ll find this isn’t the only scandal this governors responsible for. Again, consider you’re source and seek some unbiased opinions. You’ll find there’s more to this story.
WB, you know that the emergency manager is a Democrat, right? We are making progress though! You went from “End of Story” to “plenty of dirty water to go around”. Let’s see if you are open minded enough to embrace the truth rather than shun it.
Darnell Earley (Democrat), the emergency manager during the time that the utterly stupid decision to use the Flint River for drinking water claims he is not to blame. He claims that the “decision to separate from (the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department) and go with the Karegnondi Water Authority, including the decision to pump Flint River water in the interim, were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7-1 in March of 2013”
In case you were not aware:
Flint’s Mayor : Democrat
Flints City Council : Democrats
Notice a pattern here?
You’re right, there was more to this story. But I already knew that. Now you do, too.
Nemo, “you know,” the guy that appointed, the emergency manager is a Republican, right? You aren’t, “making progress though! You went from ‘End of Story’ to ‘plenty of dirty water to go around(sic). Let’s see if you are open minded enough to embrace the truth rather than shun it.
Darnell Earley (Democrat), the emergency manager,” by the Republican Governor, Synder, “during the time that the utterly stupid decision to use the Flint River for drinking water claims he is not to blame. He claims that the “decision to separate from (the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department) and go with the Karegnondi Water Authority, including the decision to pump Flint River water in the interim, were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7-1 in March of 2013(sic)”
Way to blast Chris Abele and Gov. Walker, both of whom have gutted “local representation” in Milwaukee County and the state. Thank you.
Need a lot more of that from you phony conservatives.
Why didn’t Gov. Snyder, or anyone else tell Flint’s Mayor and the City Council about the problems?
“In case you were not aware:
Flint’s Mayor : Democrat
Flints City Council : Democrats
Notice a pattern here?
You’re right, there was more to this story. But I already knew that. Now you do, too.”
1. Where’s the individual responsibility?
2. If your claims are accurate, why hasn’t Gov. Snyder and Michigan’s DOJ indicted any Democrats?
3. How much is Gov. Snyder worth, $200 million?
4. How much has he donated to Flint for water?
John, I’m not sure how highlighting Flint’s locally made disastrous decisions to leaden their water somehow blasts Chris Abele and Gov. Walker. If anything, it supports the position to take away local control from dolts, dummies, and assorted dufuses (dufi?).
Your first two questions are premature. The last two are relieving. What does the Governor’s worth have to do with his legal culpability? Are you somehow implying that the law should be more based on covetousness rather than justice?
Nemo,
Saturday at 11:25 you wrote, “WB, a Governor’s admission of limited culpability does not absolve the Democratic emergency manager, a Democratic run city responsible for treating and monitoring drinking water, and a silent-after-being-informed Barack Obama EPA.”
Two days later you wrote that it’s “premature,” to ask about “individual responsibility for Republicans.
“Notice a pattern here?”
Why do you keep failing to mention who appointed the “Emergency Manager?” Why do you keep failing to address why Flint and other Michigan cities needed an “Emergency Manager?”
You wrote, “John, I’m not sure how highlighting Flint’s locally made disastrous decisions to leaden their water somehow blasts Chris Abele and Gov. Walker. If anything, it supports the position to take away local control from dolts, dummies, and assorted dufuses (dufi?).”
Your latest comment blasts Gov. Synder for allowing local control? He should have taken it away like Gov. Walker and Abele did?
Do I have that right?
John, I stated that it would be premature to ask about individual responsibility. You added the “for Republicans” part. Responding to a comment with a misquote of that comment is not a very effective way to counter an argument. Do you misquote often, or is this a one time thing? Let’s be clear, I would rather gather all the facts before pointing a finger instead of emulating the tourette’s syndrome tactics you employ in assigning blame. The facts I’ve presented should give you pause from the usual involuntary tics and vocalizations that characterize your initial reasoning.
“Blasts” is a little strong. Lets say I disagree with Gov. Synder’s choice to appoint a Democrat as EM. To put in someone that could work with city Democrats sounded like a nice bipartisan olive branch at the time. That seems to have Pb-ed up Flint’s water. Are you saying that local control is more important than leaded water?
Nemo,
“Gov. Snyder using Moving Michigan Forward Fund to pay public relations firms in Flint water crisis”
http://www.wxyz.com/news/gov-snyder-using-moving-michigan-forward-fund-to-pay-public-relations-firms-in-flint-water-crisis
John, I’m shocked, shocked to find that a political figure would use a PR firm. Heh.
Nemo,
“I’m,” not “shocked to find that,” Republican Governor Snyder doesn’t want those dollars used on resources that could actually find solutions. “Heh.”
John, are you implying that you never saw the movie Casablanca or didn’t understand the the context of the Captain Renault quote?
Nemo,
WRT “welcome to the party pal,” and “In case you were not aware:” did you confuse Bruce Willis with Leslie Gore?
“It’s My Party And I’ll Cry if I Want to”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCPqaG8sVDE
Who appointed Darnell Earley to be “emergency manager?”
What’s an “isle?”
Nemo,
Any guesses about Michigan AG, Bill Schuette’s, party affiliation?
“AG Schuette opens investigation into Flint water crisis”
“‘The purpose of the investigation is to determine what, if any, Michigan laws were violated in the process that resulted in the contamination crisis,’ Schuette said in a news release.
‘Without fear or favor, I will carry out my responsibility to enforce the laws meant to protect Michigan families, and represent the citizens of Flint,’ he said.”
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/15/ag-schuette-flint-water-crisis/78836248/
Bill Schuette is a Republican. I don’t know how much he’s worth, if he donated to Flint for water, or your point.
Latest news: Michigan AGA appoints “independent” investigator who just happens to be donor to not only Shuette but also Snyder’s campaign.
YIKES; http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/25/3742461/michigan-attorney-general-appoints-snyder-donor/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tptop3&utm_term=5&utm_content=53&elq=a1ceb4da3796478595315694862ecaec&elqCampaignId=4871&elqaid=28900&elqat=1&elqTrackId=b35698515be9426db1f19b6eac0880a8
First they poison the water, then the investigation! This stinks to the Heavens!
Nomo,
You know your deliberate attempt to be ignorant of the facts and ignore what I actually wrote makes no difference to me or to reality?
The facts as presented by an obviously defensive band of nervous Republicans is slowly dissolving. Every hour more light is being shed on this coverup. What I find curious is how fast Republicans in top positions pointed and continue to point fingers at Democrats. Unfortunately, as the hours pass it’s becoming clearer and clearer who’s really responsible.
You aren’t right but I already knew that. The problem is no matter how many links are provided or how scandalous this becomes you will continue to distract from the truth. You and other Republicans would rather save political face then support a community in distress. Sacrificing the health and well being of citizens for political gain is the lowest form of pond scum. I choose not to swim in that pond with the likes of the Michigan Governor.
My grandmother told me “if you wait long enough the truth always comes out”. I believe you’re premature regurgitation of facts will eventually succumb to an eventual federal investigation. There’s plenty of room in the pond. Don’t forget your water wings!
Nomo,
Here are some examples of information you choose to ignore.
“Snyder administration officials were against use of Flint River before they were for it.
In related news, rock star ACLU investigative journalist Curt Guyette has revealed emails showing that officials in the Snyder administration originally rejected the use of the Flint River to supply drinking water to the city, a move that led to the poisoning of their drinking water:
In a civil deposition not reported until now, [Flint chief financial officer Jerry] Ambrose testified under oath that emergency manager [Ed] Kurtz considered a proposal to use the Flint River, discussed the option with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, and then rejected it.
In 2014, Ambrose was deposed in a civil lawsuit brought by retired Flint municipal workers against the state over severe cuts to their health care benefits. Attorney Alec Gibbs questioned Ambrose about the water decision (a year before Flint learned it was being poisoned).
“There was brief evaluation of whether the city would be better off to simply use the Flint River as its primary source of water over the long term,” Ambrose said. “That was determined not to be feasible.”
“Who determined it wasn’t feasible?” Gibbs asked.
“It was a collective decision of the emergency management team based on conversations with the MDEQ that indicated they would not be supportive of the use of the Flint River on a long-term basis as a primary source of water,” Ambrose answered.
“What was the reason they gave?” Gibbs asked.
“You’ll have to ask them,” Ambrose said.
Again, this conflicts with the spin being put out by Gov. Snyder and his defenders that this was the plan all along. Clearly it was not.”
OR…
“Decision to move to the Karegnondi Water Authority may not have been cost-saving
Motor City Muckraker has uncovered an email that suggests the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) wasn’t actually trying fleece Flint over supplying the city water. The decision to join the Karegnondi Water Authority (KWA) rather than remaining on the DWSD system was made by then-Emergency Manager Ed Kurtz on April 16, 2013. Just the day before, DWSD head Sue McCormick sent an email to attorney Jim Fausone saying that Flint could save money by staying with the DWSD because they were lowering their prices. Here’s a copy of the email he uncovered:
*SORRY-Email didn’t post
According to McCormick, Flint would actually have saved nearly a billion dollars over the following 30 years, a 20% savings over the anticipated KWA costs. In other words, the Emergency Manager chose to make the move for reasons other than cost savings. What those reasons were is a matter of speculation. Motor City Muckraker reporter Steve Neavling suggests that it may have been part of a plan to break up the DWSD and then to privatize it. Ypsilanti blogger Mark Maynard has suggested that it may have been an effort to provide water for water-intensive fracking operations. Stay tuned on this shocking twist to this story.”
Let’s remember Michigan’s Governor has called this his Hurricane Katrina. He has also stated that those responsible worked for him. Also, appointing unqualified people to positions of authority is something that he should be held accountable for. I’m not sure what more I need to say that the governor hasn’t already said to show he owns this. It’s noble that you want to defend those of the same feather but in this case I would do as Michigan’s head of DEQWater and get the flock out before you end up embarrassed and in the pond.
WB, great analysis!
Nomo,
Not to beat a dead horse but here’s more;
l. “I can’t figure out why the state is responsible.”
Gov. Rick Snyder
Snyder’s administration was often dismissive of its major role in the Flint water crisis, even though the state ultimately signed off on switching the city’s water supply to the Flint River and was responsible for addressing the health hazards that resulted.
On Sept. 26, two days after a second study revealed elevated lead levels in Flint’s water, Snyder’s chief of staff, Dennis Muchmore, was unwilling to accept responsibility and was more irritated by Democrats and “the anti everything group.”
“I can’t figure out why the state is responsible except that (state Treasurer Andy) Dillon did make the ultimate decisions so we’re not able to avoid the subject,” wrote Muchmore, who retired at the end of the year.
Dennis Muchmore, former chief of staff of Gov. Snyder
Muchmore complained that “some in Flint” were “trying to turn (the water crisis) into political football claiming the departments are underestimating the impacts of the populations and particularly trying to shift responsibility to the state.”
Flint was under state control at the time.
Muchmore continued: “It’s really the city’s water system that needs to deal with it.”
Snyder took an entirely different tone during the State of the State on Tuesday, saying he accepted responsibility and should have acted more swiftly.
“To you, the people of Flint, I say tonight as I have before, I am sorry and I will fix it,” Snyder said during his annual speech.
AND
2. The state downplayed key studies that found serious health hazards.
As Flint residents complained about health problems and discolored, foul-tasting water after receiving water from the Flint River in April 2014, the state maintained the issues were “aesthetic” and posed no risks.
“It’s not like an eminent threat to public health,” David Murray, deputy press secretary for Gov. Rick Snyder, wrote in an e-mail in February 2015, prepping state officials for a meeting in Flint.
The state Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), which is responsible for enforcing the Safe Drinking Water Act, discounted two studies that showed elevated levels of lead, saying on Sept. 25 that it found “no increase outside the normal seasonal increases.” The agency insisted its own water tests were more complete and reliable.
Geralyn Lahser, spokeswoman for the state Health & Human Services Department
“If the elevated blood lead levels were being driven by a change in water, we would have seen the elevated levels remain high after the change in water source,” wrote Geralyn Lasher, spokeswoman for the state Health & Human Services Department, in late September. Lasher suggested the elevated levels of lead were from lead paint.
Two days after a second independent study showed elevated levels of lead in the drinking water, the governor’s chief of staff on Sept. 26 suggested the switch to the Flint River was the right choice.
“It was still the right position for the long term benefit of the city and its future,” Muchmore wrote to the governor.
On Oct. 18, after the Detroit News raised serious questions about the state’s handling of the crisis, the DEQ finally acknowledged it had bungled the crisis and failed to address “corrosion control … from the beginning,” as required by federal law.
Former DEQ Director Dan Wyant
“I believe now we made a mistake,” then-DEQ Director Dan Wyant, who resigned in December, wrote to Snyder on Oct. 18. “Because of what I have learned, I will be announcing a change in leadership in our drinking water program.”
On the same date, DEQ spokesman Brad Wurfel wrote, “We will learn from this. We will make necessary changes to see to it that our program becomes a national leader in protection.”
AND
3. Curious gaps in e-mails show lack of communication or an intentional omission.
Snyder pledged to release all of his e-mails related to the Flint water crisis Wednesday following calls for more transparency.
But there are large, curious gaps in those e-mails. From early June 2015 to mid-September 2015, there are no e-mails, even though two independent tests were published during that time, showing elevated levels of lead and other health hazards.
Of the 274 pages of documents released, only seven e-mails were written by Snyder, and they are brief and provide little insight into his position on the issue.
Michigan is only one of two states that make the governor exempt from the Freedom of Information Act, so there’s no way to confirm he released all of the e-mails.
Some of the e-mails are redacted, including the first one released Wednesday.
Key Snyder aide, Richard Baird
Also missing from the e-mails is Richard Baird, a controversial top aide to Snyder who has played a heavy role in the state intervention of Flint and other cities. While he is CC’d in some communications, he apparently wrote no e-mails to the governor about the water crisis in 2014 and 2015.
AND
4. The state failed to work with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on properly handling the effects of corrosion.
Although the DEQ acknowledged in October that it was not experienced in overseeing the treatment of corrosion control, the agency declined offers by the EPA to help understand the issue. As a result, neither the city nor the state properly handled corrosion, which could have prevented thousands of people from being poisoned by excessive levels of lead.
In February 2015, the EPA was concerned that the corrosion was not handled as required by federal law. In late 2015, the auditor general conducted an investigation to determine whether the state misled the EPA about properly controlling corrosion.
The state insisted that it was following the protocols, but later acknowledged that it had not and was confused about the requirements.
“It’s increasingly clear there was confusion here, but it also is increasingly clear that DEQ staff believed they were using the proper federal protocol and they were not,” Wurfel, the DEQ spokesman, wrote in October.
“Our actions reflected inexperience, and our public response to criticism was the wrong tone early in this conversation,” Wurfel continued.
AND
5. The e-mails provide no insight into the lead-up of the water switch because Snyder declined to release communications from 2013.
One of the biggest mysteries in the water crisis is what led to the decision to use the Flint River and why state officials ignored a report that concluded the city should use phosphate for corrosion control because of lead in old pipes.
Separate e-mails from Flint in 2013 show that the DEQ was notified of the need to provide phosphate. But because Snyder declined to release e-mails from 2013, it’s unclear how the state reacted to the warning about lead in old pipes. What’s clear is that phosphate wasn’t added and corrosion control was never properly conducted.
Former state Treasurer Andy Dillon
In April 2013, then-Treasurer Dillon authorized the emergency manager to switch its water source from Detroit to a new system.
The failure to provide records from that year also conceal how Flint’s new emergency manager, Darnell Earley, responded to concerns about the water switch when he took over in October 2013. That’s important because Earley is now the emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools, and he denied having a role in the water crisis.
Snyder has dismissed calls for Earley’s resignation.
On Dec. 23, 2015, Auditor General Doug Ringler said he combed through e-mails from 2013 “to identify the key decision points and conversations that occurred leading up to and through the situation in Flint.”
Thank you Motor City Muckraker for ALL of the above info and quotes.
Waukesha Blue, wow. How long did it take you to put this lengthy yet ethereal attack together? The ideas you presented are a little lightweight given the effort, but I’m impressed. The irony of a progressive fretting over possible missing emails was delicious! Still, you did not address the more substantial evidence presented in earlier comments. Specifically:
Darnell Earley (Democrat), the emergency manager during the time that the utterly stupid decision to use the Flint River for drinking water claims he is not to blame. He claims that the “decision to separate from (the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department) and go with the Karegnondi Water Authority, including the decision to pump Flint River water in the interim, were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7-1 in March of 2013”
Clearly, the decision to increase the density of Flint’s water in a most unsafe way was a Democratic plan. Approved of by a Democratic mayor. Confirmed by a Democratic City Council. Should Gov Snyder have exorcised local Democratic control of Flint with a Republican EM? In hindsight, the answer is clearly yes. Maybe he couldn’t find an old priest and a young priest.
The republican appointed emergency manager (yes a democrat) forced the vote. The EM was directed by the governors office to get a vote on record. However, the information provided to the city council was inaccurate and incomplete. The EM had the authority and appointed power to make this decision. Ask yourself why the vote was forced. Future scapegoat? The govs office as well as the MDEQ (state) knew of the potential problems but choose to withhold this information from the council. I’m afraid as this plays out you will learn what great and scandalous lengths the Republican controlled state went to trying to control this initially and now with the subsequent fall out. I value your opinion and am not saying Democrats didn’t play a role but ultimately this crisis was manufactured and forced by the state, a state controlled by Republicans. Your effort is similar to blaming Democrats for the Iraq invasion. Just because they (Dems) voted for it, based of inaccurate and incomplete information provided by Republicans (Bush), doesn’t mean they were responsible for the war (civilian deaths, U.S. Military deaths, nation building and massive expense etc.).
I would be glad to provide you with more insight into this crisis and can give you the names of people with actual boots on the ground. As I mentioned earlier I lived in Michigan and visit often. Specifically, Genesee County, Flint, Fenton and Linden. I have a long list of family and friends that still live there and some are actively involved. Some are suffering. The truth will come out in the end and it’s my opinion that you should blow up your water wings far in advance… Now! I am sorry to say and I mean this with all due respect but you are wrong! END OF (your) STORY!
I do agree with you about the truth coming out in the end. Sadly, I don’t think facts will matter. Minds have been made up and closed (END OF STORY). The truth doesn’t matter, only ideology and political advantage matter.
We haven’t spent much time in the mitten, but we do visit the UP to downhill ski several times a year. Wonderful state, though not as beautiful as our slice of paradise in Northern Wisconsin.
Thanks for your efforts on this comment thread, it must have taken some time to compile all the information you’ve presented. You did a good job.
Shorter Nemo:
“Individual responsibility, like taxes, are just for the 99%. Since the media insists on holding the guy who appointed the emergency manager accountable, no one will be a prosecuted.
And we won’t look at why the GOP buries “American exceptionalism:” there’s zero outrage that the Flint river is toxic waste, or the disappearance of Lake Michigan’s billion-dollar-a- year commercial fishing industry.”
“The Decline of a Once-Great Fishery.”
http://www.jsonline.com/news/127244963.html
Nemo, let me know if that’s 100% not accurate.
I appreciate your thanks but as I mentioned above the thanks goes to Motor City Muckraker. They compiled. I merely copied and pasted. If that wasn’t clear (quotation marks) I apologize. It would be my hope that in a tragic situation affecting thousands of children ideology and political advantage wouldn’t matter. This is example of what’s really wrong with a politically divided society. Especially a society in which the people have lost their voice. I can live without politicians but I can’t live without water. Time to start poisoning the well from which politicians drink.
John Casper, except for two issues, I’d love to accept the challenge of answering your questions. Issue 1 is the ambiguity of the question. Are you asking if those are accurate quotes or do your want me to comment on the contents of the quotes? Issue 2 is a respect issue for BB. I try not to wander to far from the thread’s topic and I think any answer might cross that line. Please re-post the question sans polysemy on the next open thread and we’ll make a go of it.
Nemo translation:
“…except for, all the, “issues, I’d love to accept the challenge of,” avoiding, “your questions. Issue 1 is the,” lack of, “ambiguity of the question(sic). “Issue 2 is,” is the complete lack of a respect I have for BB. Whenever I paint myself into a corner, “I try not to wander,” anywhere near those topics. “I think any answer force me to admit the massive 180 I did. Please,” don’t, “re-post the question.” I asked to give my retreat some cover. If you do, I’ll have to, “make a go of,” inventing another phony excuse. I violated every Lee Atwater rule by using foreign-sounding words. Worse, I’d never heard of, “sans polysemy,” before Dennis gave it to me. We know it doesn’t apply, but Dennis said it will make me appear smarter.
Nemo, let me know if that’s not 100% accurate.
John, no, it’s not 100% accurate. It’s another misquote on your part. If you’re counting at home, that’s two on this thread alone. Very sloppy old man.
But if I’ve failed to open your mind, perhaps I can expand your vocabulary. Sans means without. Polysemy (/ˈpäliˌsemē/) refers to a word or phrase that has multiple meanings “usually related by contiguity of meaning within a semantic field” (your first question could have asked if the quote was literally correct or semantically accurate).
But again, this would be better commented on in an open thread (sorry Zach).
I recall a great debate in 2012 on how dictatorial and undemocratic Michigan’s “Emergency Manager Law” is and how the governor can negate the choices by the voter of public officials.
For a history: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/michigan-emergency-manager-pontiac-detroit
The law has one flaw: The governor cannot be declared as THE emergency. Damn it!
I am surprised Walker has not used this new GOP tool that makes voting a waste of time.
Don’t worry, I’m sure he’ll get around to it.
Here is a more comprehensive history of the problem based upon the release of e-mails: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/flint-michigan-lead-water-crisis.html
Under the Emergency Manager law, as I understand it, Governor Snyder appoints the Manager and therefore it would seem he reports to Snyder.
Ergo; “the buck stops at the top.”
P.S. Surprise; “…Sovereign immunity laws are particularly strong in the state of Michigan which protects the governor and state officials even in cases of gross negligence…”
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/flint-lawsuit-barriers-93652/
Hmmmm?
Nemo,
Incorrect: “Nemo, let me know if that’s 100% not accurate.”
Correct: Nemo, let me know if that’s not 100% accurate.
How about Rachel’s correctness?
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/27/1476106/-Wow-Rachel-Maddow-is-Showing-Us-What-Journalists-are-SUPPOSED-to-do?detail=email
Duana12, welcome to the party pal. It’s clear that there is fault on both sides of the isle. Let’s recap:
Darnell Earley (Democrat), the emergency manager during the time that the utterly stupid decision to use the Flint River for drinking water claims he is not to blame. He claims that the “decision to separate from (the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department) and go with the Karegnondi Water Authority, including the decision to pump Flint River water in the interim, were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7-1 in March of 2013”
In case you were not aware:
Flint’s Mayor : Democrat
Flints City Council : Democrats
Okay…maybe a bit more fault on one side. Yippee ki-yay!
As far as your contribution to this discourse, I have to admit: Rachel Maddow is one of the funnest comedians on the air today. Heh.
-Nemo,”Don’t call me McClane”
Nemo,
What’s an “isle?”
Since you’ve reversed yourself, again, why haven’t Republicans indicted any Democrats?
Back on 25 Jan. ’16, you wrote,” Your first two questions are premature.”
In light of what you, Nemo aka John McClane, wrote at 5:19, why are my questions, “premature?”
John, an isle is an island or peninsula, especially a small one. Here, it’s a metaphor for this thread.
I’m not a lawyer, but you might want to re-read the Duane12 post:
Sovereign immunity laws are particularly strong in the state of Michigan which protects the governor and state officials even in cases of gross negligence…
State officials would include those democrats.
Okay, I’ll call you Nema1 not to be confused with Duana12.
Do you think Snyder will go down in Republican history as their first long term lead abortionist?
Duane12, sorry about the Duana12 typo. Feel free to call me anything you’d like.
In response to your question, no. I’m not a physician, but my understanding is that lead poisoning doesn’t lead to miscarriage but to cognitive disabilities. Do you think that the democrats that made leaded water in Flint a reality were just shoring up their base?
Nemo, I like your answer and I like your sense of humor,. even occasionally on serious topics. Thank you; “We will always have Flint.”
From my research, I believe Snyder appointed an Emergency manager because of the dire financial situation in Flint due to the loss of businesses. In other words, there were few or no solutions to restore fiscal responsibility and maintain public services with an inadequate tax base due to many residents being unemployed.
I wonder if his appointment of a Democrat was a “washing of hands” solution or finding a”fall guy” to take the “hit.”
Back in 2012, Snyder was in contention as being recognized as the “winner” of the eight worst governors in the United States. If memory serves me, Scott of Florida was declared the winner.
Thanks Duane12. I’ve learned a little more and shown a little of the other side. It’s been fun. If you find yourself in the northwoods, stop by, the drinks are on me. (Check website for location and times). You too, Zach.
Nemo,
1. Did a Democrat appoint Darnell Earley to “emergency manager?”
W/R/T your, “John, are you implying that you never saw the movie Casablanca or didn’t understand the the context of the Captain Renault quote?”
Nemo, aka John McClane,
Did you just compare Gov. Snyder to a fictional Nazi-sympathizer?
Yes.
Let us know what you don’t understand about the last few minutes of “Casablanca.” Start after the 2:45 mark, until about 2:55.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G62tkd2t7qk
“Happy Trails.”
John,
Snyder appointed Democrat Darnell Earley to “emergency manager”.
I’m somewhat amazed and amused that could pose the question, “Did you just compare Gov. Snyder to a fictional Nazi-sympathizer?” Captain Renault knew there was gambling going on and when confronted with it pretended to be “Shocked”. Every thinking person knows that political types hire PR types so I was “Shocked” in that same way as the Captain. Here’s a list of possible John Casper questions and answers to clear up any other misconceptions you’ll have going forward:
John: Did you just compare Gov. Snyder to a French officer?
Nemo: No.
John: Did you just claim that Gov. Snyder has a mustache?
Nemo: No.
John: Did you just claim that Gov. Snyder is an actor?
Nemo: No.
John: Did you just claim that Gov. Snyder has a nice hat?
Nemo: No, but i wouldn’t be surprised if he does.
You might not understand this today or tomorrow, but you will someday and then for the rest of your life. Or not, either way it’s fine with me.
And here’s more…
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/28/amid-denials-state-workers-flint-got-clean-water/79470650/
Please be sure to read the emails contained in this link.
Nomo,
You may wish to delete your posts and never mention a Flint again!
M’kay WB, lets review what we have learned thus far…
Darnell Earley (Democrat), the emergency manager during the time that the utterly stupid decision to use the Flint River for drinking water claims he is not to blame. He claims that the “decision to separate from (the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department) and go with the Karegnondi Water Authority, including the decision to pump Flint River water in the interim, were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7-1 in March of 2013”
In case you were not aware:
Flint’s Mayor : Democrat
Flints City Council : Democrats
Do you have ANY evidence to refute this or are you just going to continue to yell, “SQUIRREL!”? Because…well…SQUIRREL! Heh.
Nomo,
Don’t have to refute what hasn’t been proven. You keep making the same argument. Democrat, democrat, democrat! Sounds like your stuck on pause. I provide new info and you provide… What… Democrat, democrat, democrat! Now you’re just being willfully ignorant. Enjoy the pond!
Nemo wrote: “In response to your question, no. I’m not a physician, but my understanding is that lead poisoning doesn’t lead to miscarriage but to cognitive disabilities. Do you think that the democrats that made leaded water in Flint a reality were just shoring up their base?”.
“Increase in miscarriages coincided with high levels of lead in D.C. water, study finds”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/increase-in-miscarriages-coincided-with-high-levels-of-lead-in-dc-water-study-finds/2013/12/09/22b4fe72-60f9-11e3-8beb-3f9a9942850f_story.html
John, you do know the difference between coincided and caused, right? Given your position on this, I can understand your grasping for even a weak point, but this last post doesn’t rise to even that bar.
WB, sorry I found your new info a weak and pointless distraction. I’m review it to see my initial thoughts were in error and get back to you on that.
Nemo,
You wrote, “I’m review(sic) it to see(sic) my initial thoughts were in error and get back to you on that.”
If you’re not drunk, or letting Wisconsin Conservative Digest comment for you, what’s your excuse for not being able to write coherently?
I especially like the part where it says Earley made the decision and the state treasurer signed off on it. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-went-wrong-in-flint-water-crisis-michigan/
Also, really like “footnote number 2” in the above link “fivethirtyeight.com”.
I’m pleasantly surprised that you really liked “footnote number 2”. Since the sentence, “Earley was the one who could ultimately make that decision, and he signed the request to the state treasurer to do so.” is pretty much the antithesis of your remarks to date. So now that you agree with me in that there is a shared culpability here, we come to an end, with a fuller understanding of the world and our place in it. Huzzah!
Nomo-thetic?,
Wow! As reading comprehension is clearly one of your weaker skills let me help interpret. Ya see, Earley was only able to make a “request”. It was the state treasurer who actually signed off. Requests aren’t law nor do they take the place of non existent votes. Furthermore, it’s becoming even more apparent that Earley would do anything for a buck. Check his record. He is a patsy for the governor and acted as an EM in many other capacities. I question his political affiliation and have yet to see any evidence that he was a card carrying member of the a Democratic Party. Seems like he was more of an opportunist and at the moment was being controlled by the Governor. Sadly, your failure to recognize were the responsibility lies is becoming a societal norm. You would rather protect a political party then help innocent children. Bottom line… No vote took place in the city council which by the way had no Authority to take a vote on this matter. Can you prove otherwise? Or are you just one of those people who likes to stir the pot and never has anything of substance to add. One of those people who twists and manipulates the words of others for selfserving needs. I’ve done my fair share. Now it’s time for you to put up or shut up. I don’t believe you have provided one link or piece of evidence to support your claims. Are you just another blowhard conservative willing to say anything to discredit others? Please, show me proof of our assertions and if legit I will gladly strip down to my skivvies and take a dip in the a Flint river. However, I wouldn’t even make such an offer if I thought you had any chance of success. I have been wrong before and was man enough to admit it. Do you possess this quality or is your arrogance going to block any/all commonsense.
For the sake of reading comprehension lets review…
Earley was appointed by a Republican.
Earley is NOT a card carrying member of the Democratic Party.
Earley made a request.
State Treasurer signed off.
The “request” was for use of a different pipeline.
The City Council never voted on use of Flint River water.
Do you comprehend?
In case you were not aware:
Flint’s Mayor: Patsy
Flint’s City Council: No Vote
Do you have ANY evidence to refute this or are you just going to continue to yell “SQUIRREL”?
Sorry, I forgot to include MORE supporting evidence. Watch the video!
http://www.eclectablog.com/2016/01/video-flint-city-council-voted-on-joining-karegnondi-water-authority-not-to-use-the-flint-river-for-all-their-water.html
WB,
Many thanks for the video.
Nemo and the wing nuts at “National Review,’ are wrong again.
“Notice a pattern here?”
Nemo,
What does this mean?
“I’m somewhat amazed and amused that could pose the question,… .”
Nemo,
You wrote, ” I’m not a physician, but my understanding is that lead poisoning doesn’t lead to miscarriage but to cognitive disabilities.”
Nemo, “you do know the difference between,” lead, “coincided and caused, right? Given your position on this, I can understand your(sic) grasping for even a weak point, but this last post doesn’t rise to even that bar.”
Having trouble finding a link that lead in water doesn’t “lead” to miscarriages?
Why does the Michigan’s Right-to-Life site have nothing about Gov. Snyder taking actions which “lead” to aborting the unborn in Flint?
http://www.rtl.org/news_media/news.html
Nemo,
Your comments reveal the GOP’s, “true north.” It’s not defending the unborn. It’s allowing the elites to socialize the risk and damage they do to the environment onto the taxpayers.
“Huzzah”
New disclosure: State office buildings in Flint began providing bottle water in January 2013 long before being made available to Flint citizens. WTF!
http://www.theet.com/web_exclusive/us/state-workers-in-flint-got-bottled-water-as-crisis-brewed/article_c70eb186-9a20-5cab-b0e3-e348f0ad172f.html
Love this article…
http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/bad-water-in-flint-management-sans-leadership/
Particularly how it slams the dictator or I mean governor.
Yes, the concluding sentence says it all:
“The fanciful notion that a strong dictator is more effective than a ‘weak’ democratic governing process is a theory that was considered and discarded at the founding of our nation.”
Wisconsin citizens, take note!
Blaming Dems for an ALEC proposal is the righties’ Big Lie with respect to Flint, Michigan.
MDEQ turned down the Flint proposal in 2013. It would have been too costly to upgrade Flint’s system for orthophosphate provisioning and reductions to chloride content and other corrosives, plus that Detroit was offering water cheaper than what Flint would be paying for river water.
But for ALEC there’s no limit to what their lobbying will support in their Great Third Worlding of America project. Sabotage, thy name is “Galt.”