8 thoughts on “Orlando Shooter:”

  3. Steve, thanks. It’s an excellent read. Wish Bradley would have mentioned that the U.S. and NATO forgot how Hitler’s bombing of London discredited Western pacifists.

    I agree that bombing Afghanistan played a part, but it doesn’t explain the Mateen’s target choice or the timing.

  4. John,

    This was obviously a troubled guy who may well have been struggling with his sexual identity, but to unequivocally state that his motive was solely an internal rage over his sexual identity ignores the considerable evidence that points to an anti-American radicalization. His family is from Afghanistan, he traveled twice to Saudi Arabia, he spoke Arabic, he’d been investigated twice by the FBI, he apparently had multiple books on Islam in his home, and survivors heard him tell police negotiators that his assault wouldn’t end until America stopped bombing ” his country”.

    I’d posit that he wanted to kill Americans and chose the Pulse crowd because of a combination of his personal struggles and a religious lens that viewed the club and it’s patrons as a symbol of western decadence. But like everything else in America it becomes a partisan issue: the Dems holler that it was strictly homophobia because they don’t want Trump to get any traction with his Muslim ban ideas. The GOP hollers ” Islamic radicalism ” because it supports their worldview. The nuanced truth escapes almost everyone.

    1. Steve,

      You wrote, “This was obviously a troubled guy….”

      Agree.

      1. Why aren’t Dems using Mateen as another example of the need to expand universal health care that includes a robust mental health component?

      You wrote, “…but to unequivocally state that his motive was solely an internal rage over his sexual identity ignores the considerable evidence that points to an anti-American radicalization.”

      Do you have any evidence?

      2. If you’re enraged at, “Americans,” why hit a queer club?
      2.1 Why hit one that’s predominantly Puerto Rican? He’d been there.
      2.2 His employer G4S Secure Solutions had a contract with Homeland Security to transport undocumented Americans. If you want to kill, “Americans,” why choose a target that probably includes undocumented workers?

      As you stated later, part of the narrative of his “anti-American radicalization,” is the collision of his homophobic upbringing with Western sexual freedom.

      You wrote, “his family is from Afghanistan, he traveled twice to Saudi Arabia, he spoke Arabic, he’d been investigated twice by the FBI, he apparently had multiple books on Islam in his home, and survivors heard him tell police negotiators that his assault wouldn’t end until America stopped bombing ‘his country’.”

      Yep, after we invaded Afghanistan, everyone who could afford to, got out. Parts of Saudi Arabia’s royal family financed and executed 9/11, so we invaded Afghanistan.

      3. Is knowing Arabic a crime? If so, a lot of U.S. intelligence workers are in trouble.
      3.1 Islam’s an Abrahamic religion. Does the Old Testament count as, “multiple books on Islam?”

      4. If halting the bombing was a priority, why not target a defense contractor or a military base?

      FBI had all his social media, had tried unsuccessfully to entrap him. This is another embarrassment for them. Homeland Security did not have his social media. Sen. Ron Johnson’s requested it from Facebook.

      5. Unless you want to put more blame on the FBI, that Mateen felt them closing in and this pushed him, how do you explain his timing and his target choice? Is there a new air assault against Afghanistan?

      You wrote, “I’d posit that he wanted to kill Americans and chose the Pulse crowd because of a combination of his personal struggles and a religious lens that viewed the club and it’s patrons as a symbol of western decadence.”

      Well stated, but it looks as though his overwhelming priority was ending his own life. He was too ashamed to commit suicide by himself, so he engineered, “suicide by cop,” by killing members of the LGBT community.

      You wrote, “But like everything else in America it becomes a partisan issue: the Dems holler that it was strictly homophobia because they don’t want Trump to get any traction with his Muslim ban ideas. The GOP hollers ” Islamic radicalism ” because it supports their worldview. The nuanced truth escapes almost everyone.”

      Agree, but Sec. Clinton–and Sen. Sanders–both largely embrace the GOP’s narrative. Wingnuts and many blue-dog Dems have forgotten decades of Reagan Republicans deploring, “nation-building.” It took defense contractors and Big Data a long time to educate both parties about how lucrative the “War on Terror,” could be. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon has the contract for building the CIA’s cloud. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. Since Rand Paul dropped out, no candidate would dare mention what his Dad, Ron Paul said years ago, “foreign occupations lead to more terror.”

      1. John,

        You wrote something to the effect of, why aren’t Dems using the Orlando shooting to push for greater mental health services funding? Because there’s no evidence Matten was mentally ill?

        You asked, what evidence there is that he’d become radically anti-American? He shot 49 of them to death? His statements to police negotiators? The statements he made that prompted the FBI investigations?

        You wrote ” If you’re enraged at Americans why hit a ” Queer club?” They’re not Americans? Or, he knows it will be packed on Latin Night because he’s been there before? He knows at 2:00 am everyone will be quite distracted? He knows the entrance/exit situation makes it difficult for people to get out? He knows he can do maximum damage?

        Mateens parents came to America in the 1980’s, not post 2001.

        Is knowing Arabic a crime? No, but understanding it is considered essential to being a devout muslim.

        Is there a new air assault going on in Afghanistan? Does the killing of dozens of innocent people in an errant drone strike need to be recent to be painfully memorable? We’ve commemorated the attack on Pearl Harbor for 70 years. The Kunduz airstrike on the hospital, in Afghanistan, happened just last October. At least 43 people were killed and 30 wounded. There have been an unending series of errant drone strikes/bombings on everything from wedding parties to funeral processions to backyard barbecues in Afghanistan since the war started 15 years ago.

        He owned multiple books on Islam. He spoke Arabic. He attended a mosque. He was probably a muslim. Does that make all muslins bad? Of course not. Is it a crime to point out that he was probably a muslim? Of course not.

        Why not target a military installation? Because he wanted to kill more than one or two people before being shot to death?

  5. Thanks Ed, I forgot that God makes us in His/Her very diverse image (Genesis 1:27) without respect to a human’s choice of our created religions.

    Homo sapiens (thinking man) is still evolving in wisdom and knowledge, especially in understanding and acceptance of each other.

  6. Shaming of perceived sexual orientation is something all conservative religions do: ie. Christianity and Islamic. IMO this where the Orlando massacre originates. Easy access to assault weapons made it possible.

Comments are closed.