10 thoughts on “Which lie is worthy of impeachment?”
Spin, spin and more spin.
1) It was not about the lieing. It was the abuse of power for sex. At the time of the President Clinton/Monica Lewinski scandal there was also a scandal at the Army’s Aberdeen Proving grounds. “Consent” was not an defense option for these instructors and their victims because of their senior/subordinate (aka power) relationship. But all of that was convieniently missed when it came to the beloved President Clinton. What he did was equivalent to any “Senior” using their “power” to get sex. That’s illegal.
2. Use the word “torture” a few thousand more times and maybe it will stick. I don’t blame you one bit for using that tactic. If I were you, I’m certain that I waould also spin things my way. The fact is that it is not torture by any definition.
Rich…President Clinton should have used better judgement but Monica Lewinsky was hardly a victim…at least not until the media got a hold of the story and the republicans/conservatives went looking for blood. Monica Lewinsky was not another Paula Jones. Now…I would agree with your argument if you used Paula Jones as an example. What Clinton did to her was disgusting and illegal. The impeachment was for lying under OATH.
Zach…who used torture?
That’s easy. Lying about sex while under oath is impeachable. Otherwise, gerrymandering evidence and torturing to manufacturing evidence for war in Iraq, outing CIA agents, tearing down the wall between church and state, and increasing government secrecy, is okey dokey.
Now if Bush would have done any of that while cheating on lil’ ole Laura – well, then prepare to have Newt G and the crew defend Bush’s action to the very end. Or whatever…
Anon, our government used torture, at least in my opinion. I consider waterboarding to be torture.
Rich, do you really want to talk about abuses of power by Bill Clinton, given what we’ve been through the past eight years?
It was an abuse of power for sex. Worse yet, at the SAME TIME as Pres Clinton’s scandal, we were destroying military careers every month at bootcamps/military training commands all over this nation for Seniors(Instructors) having sex with Subordinates(Students). For the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces to NOT be held to the same standard was wrong.
“…do you really want to talk about abuses of power by Bill Clinton,…?” Um, You were the one that posted the toon.
“It was an abuse of power for sex.” Are you talking about the situation with Monica Lewinsky? From everything I heard she was the one who initiated the relationship…so how does that become an “abuse of power for sex”?
“…we were destroying military careers every month at bootcamps/military training commands all over this nation for Seniors(Instructors) having sex with Subordinates(Students).” How can you say “..*we* were destroying…”? I think the Seniors (Instructors) were the ones destroying their own careers. It’s not like the military doesn’t make it clear from the get go what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
Zach…the thing is it isn’t a competition.
Yes Monica Lewinsky.
Under the UCMJ/for our troops it is irrelevant who initiated the relationship. And there are Goverenment ethics rules about using your official “office” (meaning power, title etc…) for private gain.
“WE” meaning ‘we the people’, aka society. Yes the military and it’s rules are a reflection of our society and WE had one standard for our troops and something different for our Commander in Chief. Maybe legal….but Not cool and Not ethical.
But you don’t get it. I’m fine with that. Doesn’t make it right though.
I don’t think waterboarding is considered torture, and even if it was, it was used in very rare circumstances to protect the security of the nation and we know at least once prevented another major attack. I just wonder what you and other liberals would have said if we had been attacked again during the Bush administration? My guess would be you would be very critical, not applauding the President for using nice tactics. Michael Moore probably would have made a film about their negligence of not doing enough to prevent it.
In the case of President Clinton, I wonder where the feminists were, you know the ones who worked so hard for sexual harassment laws. I guess they didn’t think it was a big deal to lie in a sexual harrassment trial. Why was that? Oh because Mr. Clinton was so committed to keeping abortion legal. Oh well.
It is true people don’t consider sexual harassment as a serious matter. Many people think if women want to work with men they need to accept when men act like pigs. The second a woman objects to the bad behavior of men in a work place they become a target and get smeared…which is what happened to Paula Jones. I give Paula Jones all the credit in the world for standing up for herself even when it seemed like the whole world was against her.
Spin, spin and more spin.
1) It was not about the lieing. It was the abuse of power for sex. At the time of the President Clinton/Monica Lewinski scandal there was also a scandal at the Army’s Aberdeen Proving grounds. “Consent” was not an defense option for these instructors and their victims because of their senior/subordinate (aka power) relationship. But all of that was convieniently missed when it came to the beloved President Clinton. What he did was equivalent to any “Senior” using their “power” to get sex. That’s illegal.
2. Use the word “torture” a few thousand more times and maybe it will stick. I don’t blame you one bit for using that tactic. If I were you, I’m certain that I waould also spin things my way. The fact is that it is not torture by any definition.
Rich…President Clinton should have used better judgement but Monica Lewinsky was hardly a victim…at least not until the media got a hold of the story and the republicans/conservatives went looking for blood. Monica Lewinsky was not another Paula Jones. Now…I would agree with your argument if you used Paula Jones as an example. What Clinton did to her was disgusting and illegal. The impeachment was for lying under OATH.
Zach…who used torture?
That’s easy. Lying about sex while under oath is impeachable. Otherwise, gerrymandering evidence and torturing to manufacturing evidence for war in Iraq, outing CIA agents, tearing down the wall between church and state, and increasing government secrecy, is okey dokey.
Now if Bush would have done any of that while cheating on lil’ ole Laura – well, then prepare to have Newt G and the crew defend Bush’s action to the very end. Or whatever…
Anon, our government used torture, at least in my opinion. I consider waterboarding to be torture.
Rich, do you really want to talk about abuses of power by Bill Clinton, given what we’ve been through the past eight years?
It was an abuse of power for sex. Worse yet, at the SAME TIME as Pres Clinton’s scandal, we were destroying military careers every month at bootcamps/military training commands all over this nation for Seniors(Instructors) having sex with Subordinates(Students). For the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces to NOT be held to the same standard was wrong.
“…do you really want to talk about abuses of power by Bill Clinton,…?” Um, You were the one that posted the toon.
“It was an abuse of power for sex.” Are you talking about the situation with Monica Lewinsky? From everything I heard she was the one who initiated the relationship…so how does that become an “abuse of power for sex”?
“…we were destroying military careers every month at bootcamps/military training commands all over this nation for Seniors(Instructors) having sex with Subordinates(Students).” How can you say “..*we* were destroying…”? I think the Seniors (Instructors) were the ones destroying their own careers. It’s not like the military doesn’t make it clear from the get go what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
Zach…the thing is it isn’t a competition.
Yes Monica Lewinsky.
Under the UCMJ/for our troops it is irrelevant who initiated the relationship. And there are Goverenment ethics rules about using your official “office” (meaning power, title etc…) for private gain.
“WE” meaning ‘we the people’, aka society. Yes the military and it’s rules are a reflection of our society and WE had one standard for our troops and something different for our Commander in Chief. Maybe legal….but Not cool and Not ethical.
But you don’t get it. I’m fine with that. Doesn’t make it right though.
I don’t think waterboarding is considered torture, and even if it was, it was used in very rare circumstances to protect the security of the nation and we know at least once prevented another major attack. I just wonder what you and other liberals would have said if we had been attacked again during the Bush administration? My guess would be you would be very critical, not applauding the President for using nice tactics. Michael Moore probably would have made a film about their negligence of not doing enough to prevent it.
In the case of President Clinton, I wonder where the feminists were, you know the ones who worked so hard for sexual harassment laws. I guess they didn’t think it was a big deal to lie in a sexual harrassment trial. Why was that? Oh because Mr. Clinton was so committed to keeping abortion legal. Oh well.
It is true people don’t consider sexual harassment as a serious matter. Many people think if women want to work with men they need to accept when men act like pigs. The second a woman objects to the bad behavior of men in a work place they become a target and get smeared…which is what happened to Paula Jones. I give Paula Jones all the credit in the world for standing up for herself even when it seemed like the whole world was against her.