“The good thing about science is, its true whether or not you believe in it.” Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson
H/T to Fear and Loathing in West Bend: I stumbled across their blog the other day and they had reprinted a local LTE, regarding teaching evolution in the schools.
Responding to schools’ evolution teachings
Another school year is under way. I’d like to share some thoughts to help parents.
I host a booth at fairs throughout Wisconsin. We educate folks in interpretation of scientific data. Parents come to my booth for help. I hear comments like: “Help! My son is losing his faith because of evolution being taught in school.” and “I’m sick and tired of evolution and millions of years being shoved down my daughter’s throat.”
After my son took biology at East, I began this outreach. He told me kids are confused about creation/ evolution and don’t know where to get answers.
Space allows only a few points:
Don’t confuse small observable changes in plants and animals to mean they change into other organisms. Perhaps we can say, “Microevolution does not mean macroevolution.”
Evolutionists highlight one organism, i.e. daisies or finches. Small variations are shown, but never a new organism. There’s tremendous variation in plants and animals, color, beak size, length of petal, etc. The fairy tale begins when those small changes are extrapolated to mean more than that. A new organism arising from small changes has never been observed and is therefore not scientific.
When “millions of years” language is heard/read, our kids should ask, “Were you (or anyone) there?” After all, science is supposed to be testable, observable, repeatable. One can claim that, “given enough time anything can happen.” But, really? A great deal of faith is needed to believe that. Children in our schools shouldn’t be subject to such unsubstantiated ideas.
Dinosaurs aren’t really a mystery. Evidence of man with dinosaurs includes:
Drawings, clay dinosaur figures, architectural designs, legends, Chinese calendar, and surprisingly to evolutionists, unfossilized T-rex bones uncovered, having soft tissue and red blood cells. Do students learn these facts?
Good resources are: icr.org or answersingenesis.org.
Mary Weigand, town of Trenton
Supposedly her husband is on the local school board and she has her own website http://whatstheevidence.net. No wonder crackpots like grothman are getting elected in West Bend.
So now that I know, according to legend and clay figures, that dinosaurs walked with men, I need to get a T-rex for my son’s birthday. I wonder if they have one at the pet store in West Bend! Boom Boom Acka lacka lacka Boom….
Do you think you could make an actual point…?
The point is, I see how a crackpot like grothman can keep winning really electing if this is truly the attitude in west bend. It also shows how dangerous the anti intellectual sentiment is that has taken over this state.
Am I the only one who thinks PP doesn’t make any sense? Take his first sentence…what does it mean? And the second…what “anti intellectual sentiment” is he talking about? Seriously.
There’s a reason more of his posts go uncommented on than any other poster.
I’m not sure why Zach has PP posting here. It seems to me PP is lowering the standard of this blog. But, that’s just my opinion. Zach’s the boss around here.
So what, he shouldn’t be allowed to express his opinion simply because folks think he’s “lowering the standard” here?
I can say without reservation that I’ve posted plenty of stuff here that didn’t have a “point;” some it was posted simply to elicit a discussion, not necessarily to express my own opinion or to make a point.
And for what it’s worth, it took me a good long time to “find my voice” here, so cut PP some slack. Having talked to the guy, he’s not unwilling to take feedback in order to improve, but simply saying he sucks isn’t the kind of feedback that’s helpful.
I’ve given him a chance. I don’t appreciate his sexist remarks and his flame throwing tactics. If that’s what you like…more power to you. Like I said…you are the boss around here.
It’s not about not being allowed to express himself – you clearly take great pains to avoid censoring opinions in comments. But posters are a separate issue. You don’t allow just anyone to be a poster – by picking and choosing, you are exerting editorial control and such, posters have your de facto endorsement.
You’ve said that before – I think it was quite awhile ago already. He’s found his voice. Posting opinion as facts, name calling and gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations. His posts rarely lead to any decent discussion. They either sit uncommented on or occasionally, are inflammatory enough to start off a flame war of tit for tat garbage.
When he actually changes his mind, reconsiders his position or even actually reads & thinks through a dissenting opinion, it will be a first time.
Locke, you’re right that I do pick and choose who gets to contribute here, and as such I exert editorial control, but at the same time, just as I try really hard not to censor comments, I try really hard not to censor the opinions offered by contributors, whether I agree with those opinions or not.
Locke, feel free to show me anytime where I did any of this:
Posting opinion as facts, name calling and gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations.
I read and think through dissenting opinions all the time it helps me form my own.
Its simple Anon. we have people who are in charge of our schools who think that Dinosaurs walked with men and the earth is only a few thousand years old.
Hello third world country here we come….
As for the anti-intellectualism, it was abundant in the last election and I wrote about it
http://bloggingblue.com/?s=anti+intellectualism
Do you even know what it means when a country is considered a “third world country”? Here’s a clue…it has nothing to with how old they think the world is.
As far as the link you posted…I’m not reading it because if it’s anything like this post I’ll be here way too long trying to figure out what your point is.
You don’t think lower education standards contributes to keeping nations in third-world status? I’d argue that a country that focuses on providing its citizens with a quality education is a country that has at least one thing going for it as it tries to rise above third world status.
You can’t honestly tell me that you believe our nation would be as strong economically, politically, or socially if our population was educated at a level commensurate with a third world country.
“Its simple Anon. we have people who are in charge of our schools who think that Dinosaurs walked with men and the earth is only a few thousand years old.
Hello third world country here we come….”
Do you realize how long people have thought the world is thousands of years old? It hasn’t made us a third world country yet. It’s a religious view point…not an intellectual point of view.
Which is exactly why it’s dangerous to teach such a position in a public school.
ANON
you just made the point I was trying to make. It is a religious view that is rapidly changing as we get more and more information and science. The point of this post is people who are adamant about this are taking over the schools(she honestly thinks dinosaurs walked with men – and for proof she cites (LEGENDS))
It is definitely NOT an intellectual point of view, Now during the education debate we will be having soon in WI, try and turn on the TV and find a right winger who is not blaming all of the worlds ills on the teachers unions and complaining about our kids falling behind the rest of the world.
I am pointing out the first place they should look!
Its fine if you disagree with me, thats what makes THIS particular blog so much fun. All of the differing viewpoints, it would be no fun to just “preach to the choir” (speaking of badger blogger).
PP…you’re a nutjob.
Yeah, I can see your point about this blog starting to sound like Badger Blogger.
It started sounding like Badger Blogger way before I made my comment/comments.
I’m sorry you feel the need to defend your male poster from my criticism. My points are valid and needed to be said. The sexist comments that I have been reading on this blog as of late are uncalled for and need to stop. Or at least…the owner of the blog should voice an opinion when they are made…otherwise it appears that you support the sexist comments. Had the comments been racist or homophobic I’m sure you would have spoken up. I’m sorry and very disappointed you don’t feel sexism is important enough to speak out against.
Again…I’ll ask you. What the hell is so funny about sexist comments?
“You can’t honestly tell me that you believe our nation would be as strong economically, politically, or socially if our population was educated at a level commensurate with a third world country.”
Do you honestly think we have a chance of becoming a third world country?
I think you’re out of line here PP.
It’s a well known fact that Fred Flintstone was one of the hangers on around Jesus and the Twelve Disciples. I’m pretty sure Andrew Breitbart made a documentary film about it.
Its not how old you think the world is that makes you a third world country. Its when you totally disregard education, facts. Truth, science, etc… JFK put out a call for everyone to see what you van do for your country and be the best you can be. The tea part thinks we need to cut education money and that Fred Flintstones is a reality show.
I don’t know what the “tea part” thinks but most of the people who believe the world is thousands of years old believe that because of their religion. In fact…that is exactly what I was taught as a child.
I was taught that the world was thousands of years old by my religion when I was a kid, but that doesn’t mean I still believe what I was taught as a child. As I grew older and educated myself on the differing viewpoints about the age of the world, evolution, etc., I formed my own opinion about things.
I see PP’s point about disregarding facts, science, etc., even if you don’t.
Many people continue to believe in their religion even if you and PP don’t. Religion isn’t about facts, science, etc. It’s about faith.
But…the point is…the “tea part” is not responsible for people’s belief about how old the earth/world is. Is it too much to ask for PP to keep it real? There is plenty out there…he doesn’t have to make things up.
Maybe that’s his perception of things, whether right or wrong.
You are very defensive of PP perception. Is there a reason? Can’t he speak for himself? Are we suppose to just let him spew his perceptions without questioning them??
PP can (and I’m sure will) speak for himself; I’m simply adding my own thoughts. Given that this is still my blog, I think I’m allowed to do that.
That’s my reason.
Well…clear something up for me. Am I allowed to voice my opinion on YOUR blog? It sure doesn’t seem like it. I’ve never seen you go after someone like you did me today. I’m sure you probably thought I’d back down…but I’m not. I think it’s pretty darn lousy of you to host such a sexist. He was called out numerous times for making sexist comments and each time he said he thought the comments were funny. Let me ask you this…what the hell is so funny about sexist comments?
Is it too much to ask Glenn Beck to keep it real? Or Breitbart, Malkin, Limbaugh, Coulter, or any one of a dozen other despicable far right loudmouths? Huh?
WTF? Who is talking about those nutjobs? Man alive…this is getting as bad as Badger Blogger. All you men want is for people to agree with you. Really pretty pathetic.
No, this is nowhere near as bad as Badger Blogger, but that’s just my opinion.
No…this is worse….because I expect this kind of BS from them.
” When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me”.
I think Fred Flintstone said that.
And your point is? For someone who thinks he’s so mature you sure do invoke Fred Flintstone a lot.
Please don’t divert away from the point I made to PP. I understand it’s hard for him to backtrack now…but at least he should give it a shot.
You’re really hot on the trail, eh, Anon? This is really important business. Pardon my puerile input. You’ve got bigger fish to fry indeed!
No…I’m not “hot on the trail”. Is there a reason why I shouldn’t challenge PP BS? Gosh…sorry men…I guess I don’t know my place. Let me get back to the dishes and give my man some head.
Who said anything about you knowing your place?
That seems to be a general theme as of late on your blog.
Cite some examples.
Oh…and the four half naked women dancing in the video PP had to post on a political blog went over like a lead balloon too.
And I talked to PP about posting that video, and since then we haven’t had an issue with him posting NSFW videos.
I’m talking about the video he posted in this post…was there a different one I missed? Why am I not surprised?!
I think she was referring to the 80s Was not Was Walk the Dinosaur Video I put up at the end of the post.
Anon I (along with a vast majority of the country) very much took exception to the republicans attempt to redefine rape this week. Which I think if i remember right, you did not find that appalling.
I also never said “she deserved the comment” my post there was about its funny what the right wing hate talkers find to get soooooo upset about, and what they dont. I also said that is the part of his comment that sly apologized for and that is all that he needed to apologize for.
PP…you said “well said” to Jake when he said Kleefisch deserved Sly’s comments and that it was funny.
Again…don’t assume to know how I feel/felt about the bill the republicans *proposed*. What I said was the mere proposal of the bill was not a violent act on women…and that it was about funding…not redefining what rape is.
It’s about time you stop making things up.
As a former science teacher, this is happening more and more. Not only that but administration seems to be kowtowing to it, to keep parents happy. Many science educators are leaving the profession, as we watch science illiteracy accelerate. Administration then hires more science educators that walk to the beat of that drummer.
Here is a book to ponder over, Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future [Hardcover]
Chris Mooney
Has anyone heard of the Creation Museum? A scary place for uninformed scientific minds.
Thanks for getting us back on topic.
Ultimately I don’t have a problem with anyone believing the world is only thousands of years old, because they’re certainly entitled to their beliefs.
However, I do have a problem with teachers teaching religious doctrine as “scientific fact,” which is what they’re doing by teaching creation theory/intelligent design.
Two come to mind at the moment…
PP post about Sly’s sexist comment about the Lt. Governor. PP said Kleefisch deserved the comment and that it was funny. The only problem with that…it doesn’t just affect Kleefisch. It perpetuates sexism for all women.
PP post about Palin calling her Caribou Barbie. PP once again said he didn’t make it up…he just heard the name and thought it was funny. I think Locke made really good points about PP explanation on that post.
Mind you…I don’t read most of what PP writes…and I’m not about to start now just to cite more examples. The first one I cited should be enough though. I was disappointed you didn’t speak up then.
Zach, I have no problem with people’s beliefs either. I have been in classrooms where there were no fewer than 5 religious beliefs at any one given time. What makes it difficult in a science classroom, is when one religion takes precendence over all others. It is also difficult to teach things like plate tectonics when so many students refuse to believe the science, stating that the earth is only 6000 years old and these events could never have happened. One day I came in to my classroom to find a bible on my desk with a note about following Jesus. This assumes a lot and was quite unnerving. One student turned in a 12-page paper on creationism, without doing an assignment. I had to figure out how to grade it without upsetting parents and administration. To me, this is the “monkey trials” in reverse.
Hmm, maybe not the monkey trials in reverse, maybe it is just the trials all over again, but without the courtroom. Either way, the science teacher is vilified again.
Hmm, maybe not the monkey trials in reverse, maybe it is just the trials all over again, but without the courtroom. Either way, the science teacher is vilified again.