From the folks who brought you “shots for signatures” comes “dead people signing petitions.”
According to the report by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the recall petition against Democratic State Senator Bob Wirch includes a signature for the long-deceased father of Democratic State Rep. Mark Pocan of Madison. Bill Pocan, father of Rep. Mark and Milwaukee County Circuit Judge William Pocan, is listed as signing a petition to recall Sen. Wirch on March 3, despite the fact that Bill Pocan has been dead for 20 years.
Reached for comment about the fact that a dead person had signed a recall petition, Wirch recall chairman Dan Hunt acknowledged the signature but predictably accused Democrats of intentionally signing Bill Pocan’s name on the document to try to discredit the recall effort. Clearly it’s lost on Dan Hunt that offering shots of liquor for recall signatures doesn’t exactly lend a lot of credibility to a recall effort, and I wouldn’t put it past Hunt or his people to have conjured up invalid signatures.
what would you expect from someone that packs the very worst of wursts – johnsonville
Boycott johnsonville products – let them know that hard-workin’, fun-lovin’, grillin’ Americans won’t support their class warfare!
walker and the political hacks johnsonville supports don’t grill brats – they eat prime rib. Don’t open your wallet to these goons!
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What exactly does your comment have to do with my entry?
I’m just curious, because it seems like you’re a one-trick pony when it comes to your comments.
Rumor has it that the petition was signed by the wife of the deceased, Bill Pocan.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971722/-WI-recalls:-A-man-dead-for-20-years-signs-Wirch-petition
That’s bullshit. She is very upset by all of this, having dated my father since they were 14. She signed an affidavit that it wasn’t him. I hate Republicans who will say or do anything to cover their sleaze. Oh, and she’s a die-hard Dem in cause you were wondering.
My apologies, Mark. In posting the comment, I was just reporting what I was hearing. To be honest, I was assuming that your Mom was a Republican, and that your Dad had been one, as well. Good to hear that the reports were wrong. Also good to hear that she is a die-hard Democrat
Anyway, brother, I just want to make clear that I am a die-hard Democrat now, as well.
AND you’re right about Republicans, Mark. They WILL say and/or do anything to get what they want. I guess that the Recall Robert Wirch campaign had to do something, even stoop to fraud, in order to make up for a lack of true grassroots enthusiasm. I’m sorry that your Mom got caught up in their shenanigans in the way that she was.
No worries, I didn’t think you made it up. I was just reacting to the idea. Would you be willing to email me at markpocan@tds.net and let me know more about where you heard the rumor from? I really want to track down all their lies. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Mark, I think that the fault lies with me and the fact that I misinterpreted what I had heard. It struck an understandable nerve with you, and I truly apologize for that.
The way that I see it, Mark, your Mom is going to be a hero in all of this as the pervasive Republican fraud here is exposed in ALL of its ignominy. Couldn’t happen to more deserving people.
I would say it is a very strong chance it was a supporter of Wirch who did it.
Based on what, other than your opinion?
I find it hard to put much credibility in the assertions of a guy whose efforts to collect signatures were aided by offering shots of liquor for signatures.
I guess when you look at it my accusation is just about as accurate as any made here. There is no proof that it was a anti Wirch person who signed it with the dead guys name just as we have no real proof that it was not. But when you step back and look at who would benefit the most from using that signature, it is clearly the Wirch supporters. What a great way to raise doubts about other signatures on the recall. But again while I cannot prove it was you also cannot prove it was not, but when you really look at why I do believe my offering is clearly the most logical.
“But when you step back and look at who would benefit the most from using that signature, it is clearly the Wirch supporters.”
Notalib, you’re conveniently dealing with secondary, not to mention wild-eyed and evidence-free, considerations.
Try to focus on the fact that the PRIMARY beneficiary of any given signature on a petition to recall Robert Wirch is the Recall Robert Wirch campaign. If you need a certain number of signatures to get the recall petition certified, then every signature counts. Besides, if you’re paying outsiders for each signature collected, particularly those who are ex-felons, wouldn’t it be most reasonable to suspect them first, if not the Recall Robert Wirch campaign, before anyone else?
Moreover, Notalib, what if such a situation was discovered with respect to a petition being circulated by, let’s say, the Recall Glenn Grothman campaign. We ALL know who you would be accusing of fraud, don’t we?
Stop being such a partisan for once, and JUST admit that this tars the Recall Robert Wirch campaign alone, as it should.
If you can’t do that, and if you simply want to indulge in the kind of truly mindless, evidence-free, partisan hackery characteristic of wingnut conspiracy theories, your opinion won’t be worth the “paper” it is written on.
Don’t you think it’s more likely that someone being paid 5 bucks a signature just copied names out of a phone book hoping no one would notice?
I mean you’re getting paid by the signature, seems likely that inscrupulous folk forge signatures to get more cash.
Twice now my post was lost. How come I keep losing my posts to a “time out”. I had posted (and will post again, the fact that concerned badger is spot on with his attempt to keep this boycott issue on the front burner. He might be off topic, but he is doing a service keep the issue highlighted.
Jack, I’m not sure what the “time out” issue is about; but I am aware of it and I’m investigating.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971712/-Possible-GOP-Recall-Fraud-in-Wisconsin
Story entitled, “POSSIBLE GOP RECALL FRAUD IN WISCONSIN”, by North Central
“The name Bill Pocan appears in the recall petition against Bob Wirch of Kenosha, one of the Fab-14 Wisconsin senators and one of three up for recall. If the name Pocan sounds familiar, it is because Bill Pocan’s son is Democratic State Representative Mark Pocan (78th). This according to JSOnline politics blog.
The problem is that Bill Pocan died 20 years ago.
There’s been considerable rumbling in Wisconsin about GOP recall committees bringing in hired guns from out of state, paid by the signature, to canvass voters. This on top of repeated allegations of shots for signatures pretty much lays waste to any notion that the effort to recall the (D) senators of Wisconsin was “grassroots.”
Of course, the chair of the Wirch recall committee points the finger at Wirch supporters.
Hunt said Democrats chose Pocan because it would bring more attention to the matter, given the prominence of his sons.
This is silly on its face. Recall petition sheets must be signed by the circulator, in this case, a guy named Kevin Pursell. Pursell’s signature also appears on other sheets in the Wirch recall document group. If he’s a plant by the Democrats, he sure went through a lot of trouble to get names, including putting his own candidate at risk by gathering legitimate signatures against him.
The GOP in this state is getting ready to introduce one of the most restrictive voter ID laws in the nation, pleading their case by talking about massive fraud issues in Milwaukee and Madison, which you all know is the core of Democratic power in Wisconsin. And those of us in Wisconsin who actually read the news instead of getting it all from Charlie Sykes know that the ID proposal is a solution looking for a problem.
If there is a problem, it would seem as though it doesn’t lie with the Milwaukee and Madison electorate. The way the GOP recall committees ran their operations, you can expect plenty more stories like this before the verification ends. Book that.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971712/-Possible-GOP-Recall-Fraud-in-Wisconsin
Story entitled, “POSSIBLE GOP RECALL FRAUD IN WISCONSIN”, by North Central
“The name Bill Pocan appears in the recall petition against Bob Wirch of Kenosha, one of the Fab-14 Wisconsin senators and one of three up for recall. If the name Pocan sounds familiar, it is because Bill Pocan’s son is Democratic State Representative Mark Pocan (78th). This according to JSOnline politics blog.
The problem is that Bill Pocan died 20 years ago.
There’s been considerable rumbling in Wisconsin about GOP recall committees bringing in hired guns from out of state, paid by the signature, to canvass voters. This on top of repeated allegations of shots for signatures pretty much lays waste to any notion that the effort to recall the (D) senators of Wisconsin was “grassroots.”
Of course, the chair of the Wirch recall committee points the finger at Wirch supporters.
Hunt said Democrats chose Pocan because it would bring more attention to the matter, given the prominence of his sons.
This is silly on its face. Recall petition sheets must be signed by the circulator, in this case, a guy named Kevin Pursell. Pursell’s signature also appears on other sheets in the Wirch recall document group. If he’s a plant by the Democrats, he sure went through a lot of trouble to get names, including putting his own candidate at risk by gathering legitimate signatures against him.
Nota….try and bring more to the discussion than concerned badger because right now your failing,
Jeff if all you can offer is a personal attack may I suggest you refrain from posting it in the future. Your lack of substance really brings down many conversations here. Thank You.
Jeff wasn’t attacking you personally. He was simply offering his opinion about the singular lack of evidence that you offered in support of the position that you took.
If he has offered similar opinions in the past, having read your comments over time, I’m pretty confident that they had merit, as well.
As always, I am troubled by your apparent need to demonize anyone who has the temerity to ask you to elevate the quality of what you post or to at least offer some evidence to support the positions which you take.
Jeff is an eminently reasonable and fair person. You need to take that into account, and maybe take his advice, the next time that he offers you a similar opinion. You certainly should have taken it into account this time.
“Better to remain silent and only be thought the fool, than to [write] and remove all doubt”.
Even if it was a supporter of Wirch who did it, it should have been the recall effort’s responsibility to see that the signature was legitimate.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971712/-Possible-GOP-Recall-Fraud-in-Wisconsin
Story entitled, “POSSIBLE GOP RECALL FRAUD IN WISCONSIN”, by North Central
“The name Bill Pocan appears in the recall petition against Bob Wirch of Kenosha, one of the Fab-14 Wisconsin senators and one of three up for recall. If the name Pocan sounds familiar, it is because Bill Pocan’s son is Democratic State Representative Mark Pocan (78th). This according to JSOnline politics blog.
The problem is that Bill Pocan died 20 years ago.
There’s been considerable rumbling in Wisconsin about GOP recall committees bringing in hired guns from out of state, paid by the signature, to canvass voters. This on top of repeated allegations of shots for signatures pretty much lays waste to any notion that the effort to recall the (D) senators of Wisconsin was “grassroots.”
Of course, the chair of the Wirch recall committee points the finger at Wirch supporters.
Hunt said Democrats chose Pocan because it would bring more attention to the matter, given the prominence of his sons.
This is silly on its face. Recall petition sheets must be signed by the circulator, in this case, a guy named Kevin Pursell. Pursell’s signature also appears on other sheets in the Wirch recall document group. If he’s a plant by the Democrats, he sure went through a lot of trouble to get names, including putting his own candidate at risk by gathering legitimate signatures against him.
The GOP in this state is getting ready to introduce one of the most restrictive voter ID laws in the nation, pleading their case by talking about massive fraud issues in Milwaukee and Madison, which you all know is the core of Democratic power in Wisconsin. And those of us in Wisconsin who actually read the news instead of getting it all from Charlie Sykes know that the ID proposal is a solution looking for a problem.
If there is a problem, it would seem as though it doesn’t lie with the Milwaukee and Madison electorate. The way the GOP recall committees ran their operations, you can expect plenty more stories like this before the verification ends. Book that.”
Then instead of apologizing they passed the buck…typical republican!
Mark was a Magician! Maybe this is part of his act….j/k (but he really did have a magic act).
Hey dead people have voted before so why not have them sign recall papers? This is an issue that both sides need to come together. We need voter id, stiffer elections laws which include the recall process. The ones standing in the way are the liberals not the Democrats.We have know idea who signed it and which side they are from and anyone who thinks they know is guessing and spinning it.
yes nothing like disenfranchising college kids, minorities and the elderly to make sure that the republican recall efforts are done respectably.
(*laughing*)
Yeah, Jeff, good thing Olaf Jacobi is around to help us keep our priorities straight, huh?
It’s the Democrats’ fault. Wow! Who knew?!
Thanks, Olaf, for keeping everyone’s eye on the ball.
I don’t put little shriveled johnsonville products on my grill for the same reason I don’t wipe my butt with Angel Soft, Quilted Northern, and Soft n Gentle toilet paper.
johnsonville and the koch borthers don’t really care how we vote, they got that figured out – what they really need are the dollars in our wallets, perhaps the only “vote” we have that is accurately accounted for.
Meaningful change will demand meaningful action – economic boycotts agaist koch produce lines and johnsonville.
Olaf – we don’t need stiffer election laws. We need politicians and political operatives to follow the laws; who are responsible, who use commonsense and are honest. We don’t need politicians or political operatives who:
email offensive racist images
or offer drinks to gather signatures
or deceptively edit videos
or hire people to dress up like Black Panthers outside a voting place
or print flyers with the wrong address for polling places
or make robo calls pretending to be an opponent
or tell their employees who to vote for
or transfer ballots to private insecure computers
…
“or hire people to dress up like Black Panthers outside a voting place”
Are you talking about the thugs back in 2008 that were intimidating voters and told a reporter he was “tired of white supremacy”? Are you talking about tat incident or were there others?
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Only boycott I see that has any real meaning is …. http://greenbayphorum.com/gifs/hope.jpg
Nota,
Petrobas is the Brazilian state owned oil company. If we drill here would you agree that an American State owned oil company should own the oil?
No, what we should be doing is NOT give money to foreign countries for oil exploration, we should be opening more exploration in this country in the gulf, off the shores of California, in Alaska, in North Dakota……
I just spent some time browsing through petition pages posted on the GAB website. I have renewed sympathy for the people doing the validations. Such patience they must employ! Many lines are difficult to read (at least on line) and on too many pages the solicitor does not provide the city or village they come from. I’ll be more vigilant asking my signers to write clearly but in Ohio, our SB5 Repeal petitions require both manuscript printed name and the signature.
notalib- keep up with the news
read: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39861.html
I read the article and I see in it no where stated that they were not Black Panthers. However I did read this, “One of the men had a nightstick, if an unclear agenda — though a member of the black nationalist New Black Panther Party, he had earlier professed loathing for the Democratic “puppet” candidate, Barack Obama”
But I will give you a chance to show me in that article where it says they were “hired people to dress up like Black Panthers”
Just got back from Woodmans and have the Johnsonville Brats on the grill! Anyone care to join me, I al;so have ice cold Miller!
Hope ya picked up some of the koch brother’s asswipe too.
If you eat that moldy second-rate factory sausage, you are likely to be moving some major tonnage out your posterior at breakneck speeds.
Your type probably needs to keep koch’s Brawny paper towels in the outhouse to handle the projectile streams of formless feces those johnsonville products are sure to produce from the deepest and darkest recesses of your bowels.
Impressive Badger
hope ya enjoyed your highly-processed, edible meat-like substances , but they do make your bowels explode and you will want top have double rolls’ of the koch brother’s brawny.
Their toilet paper cannot withstand the vile chemical trail that will soon be blowing a brown/green vortext out your butt.
enjoy johnsonville products if you like, but they will give you the runs and they do underwrite walker/repugs.
Good lord what are you 12?
Pot calling the kettle black, Notalib.
While you seem to have behaved yourself in the past week or two, you are truly the last person here that should be saying such a thing.
Just exercise the same patience with concerned badger that people around here have had to historically exercise with you.
I think so many people don’t have a clue. The recalls are not a GOP, REP, DEM event, they are a people event. For the huffington post to say it is a GOP problem diminishes things. I will make the statement again, we don’t know who let alone which side put the dead names on the list and to claim otherwise is ignorant and false!
I am having a problem getting to this site as a get website not found and now I cannot even post comments.
You all had a melt down about how republicans collected a few signatures but I notice not a peep fro you regarding UWO criminal justice professor Stephen Richards who really crossed the line and should be out of a job very soon.
It happened when volunteers were trying to collect signatures to recall Republican State Senator Randy Hopper of Fond Du Lac over the collective bargaining law. Professor Richards took time during class to tell students how they could sign. A student recorded it on his cell phone.
“I’m not going to do this in the classroom,” Richards was recorded saying to his class. “But these two students are going to stand outside and if you want to, sign their clipboard.”
Some students are upset.
“I don’t think it’s very fair for college professors to be asking us to sign recall petitions,” said student Natalie Brickner. “We are not very informed about the topic, and therefore may be persuaded one way or the other.”
“if you want to”
Any Wisconsin college student who is not “informed about the topic” is seriously out of touch. If this student took offense at the suggestion she might or might not want to take some civic action she is deliberately “winnowing” out important parts of her education. Or, like Notalib, she only believes people have the right to choice when the choices have already been limited by a chosen few.
Notalib- I assume your trolling here is a paying gig.
I am very glad they stopped this immediately. I would hate for a college student to have to think for themselves. The nerve of a professor talking current events. WOW that was a close one thanks for bringing that to our attention nota.
So Jeff what you are saying that it would have been perfectly fine for this professor to have said that if the recall was for a Democratic senator? You would have seen no problem with it what so ever correct?
yes nota if the professor had said they are signing a petition outside for Mark Miller you can sign it if you want to but you dont have too. Umm yes id be fine with it.