I’ll admit that I’ve surfed over to the iVerifyTheRecall website to check to see if my signature was there (it was), and while I was there I figured I’d check to see which local elected officials have signed the petition to recall Gov. Scott Walker.
As I checked through a few names, I was surprised and disappointed to find that Milwaukee Alderman Tony Zielinski’s name wasn’t among those having signed a petition to recall Gov. Walker. However, understanding that the iVerifyTheRecall website isn’t perfect (a friend of my wife’s wasn’t listed as having signed a petition despite having signed a petition my wife circulated), I figured I’d contact Ald. Zielinski to get the truth of the matter. Confident I’d get a response one way or the other from him, I posted a message on Ald. Zielinski’s Facebook page asking him if he had signed a petition to recall Gov. Walker, and imagine my surprise when I found that my message to Ald. Zielinski had not only been deleted, but he had “unfriended” me as well.
So my original question remains….did Ald. Tony Zielinski sign a petition to recall Gov. Scott Walker? I think it’s a question that deserves an answer.
Would this be considered the liberal version of McCarthyism?
Chris, I understand why you want to defend Tony, given that he’s paid you $700 (by my count) for your services to his reelection campaign, but nothing I’ve written is untrue.
I had hoped Tony would answer my question definitively one way or the other, and I would have considered the issue resolved, but instead he (or you, if you’re handling his Facebook page) chose to delete my question and unfriend me, which is a bush league move for an elected official. If Tony (or you) can’t handle some criticism, then perhaps he’s not suited to elected office, because criticism and questions come with the territory.
Considering I posted on this a few days ago, criticizing the right for the McCarthyism of it all, it would only be consistent to hold that position for both sides.
Then again, Tony doesn’t need to go negative either.
Again, this isn’t about your so-called McCarthyism; it’s about the response by an elected official to a legitimate question. I don’t expect every single Democratic elected official to have signed petitions to recall Gov. Walker and Lt. Gov. Kleefisch; I just hope that if they’re asked about it they respond a little more maturely than to ignore/delete the inquiry and “unfriend” someone.
The fact that Tony felt compelled to not only delete my question but also unfriend me tells me a lot, and not in a good way.
Zach…the fact you “unfriended” me says a lot about you too. I’ll bet you are still friends with the sexist hypocrite commenter Phil Scarr.
Zach wrote:
Zach Wisniewski
June 16, 2012 at 12:34 pm
“I’ve seen the screen in question, and that has absolutely nothing to do with a human moderating your comment as spam. If Phil or me or someone else marked your comment as spam, it wouldn’t have happened the very second you posted your comment; it would have happened after the fact.
Without knowing exactly what you wrote in your comment, I can’t tell you why the anti-spam filter marked it as spammy. Did it contain a bad word? Was it too short? I don’t know, because you don’t recall what you wrote.
This isn’t some grand conspiracy.”
Zach…don’t belittle me and then close the comments so I can’t defend myself. I didn’t say it was a “grand conspiracy”…I said it was a cowardly man spamming my comment because he can’t handle the truth. No conspiracy. It is rather transparent and quite pathetic. But…thanks for disappointing the hell out of me by defending your “friend”.
Let’s clear something up. I unfriended you because I asked if you were calling me a liar after you chose not to believe the explanation I provided regarding your comment, and you didn’t deny. If you think I’m a liar, then so be it, but my friends don’t call me a liar.
As for me closing the comment thread, that wasn’t done to prevent you from defending yourself; it was done because that thread had gotten out of control, in large part due to Phil’s comments and behavior.
The last thing I want to do is respond to your accusation…but I can’t let it stand without stating the truth. I did not call you a liar…and it pains me you would think that of me and then accuse me of calling you a liar on your blog.
The truth is…I believe Phil Scarr…the cowardly man that he is…spammed my comment. I think you are wrong (not a liar) if you believe differently.
Honestly, Monica, you need to chill. You seem to be letting your emotions get the best of you.
Phil is neither a sexist, nor a coward. Zach isn’t a liar. And no one at Blogging Blue singled out one of your comments for special handling.
You’ve been here for just a short period of time, but you are already enmeshed in any number of different controversies. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
There is a certain irony, as well as internal inconsistency, in your continuing histrionics regarding Phil, your claim that he “spammed [your] comment”, in particular.
You’ve taken great offense at various things which Phil has written. I think that it’s fair to say that Phil speaks his mind, and doesn’t have a passive-aggressive bone in his body. He says what he means, and means what he says. Do you honestly think that he would “spam [one of your] comment[s]”, rather than just respond to it with one of his own?
Monica, you’re clearly an intelligent and an articulate person, but you need to chill out, and give yourself a chance to think a little more clearly before you commit your thoughts “to paper”.
I’d much rather hear your thoughts on the issues of the day, rather than the latest thing which has offended your sensibilities. I suspect that you have some worthy insights to share, but I’m fast approaching the point of just tuning you out.
Take care,
ZB
I KNOW differently, as I tried to explain to you. However, you won’t listen to any explanation that doesn’t involve Phil doing something to your comment, despite my best efforts to explain the TRUTH, which is that your comment was caught automatically by our spam filtering program for some unknown reason.
The fact that you won’t accept my explanation tells me everything I need to know about what you think of the veracity of my explanation.
I believe you think you KNOW differently…but I believe you are wrong. I sent you an email explaining to you “users” can spam comments before they post but you refuse to entertain the thought you buddy boy could do something like that. And…unfortunately that tells me everything I need to know.
Zuma…I appreciate your comment but this isn’t about emotions. I’m emotional over the 40+ year old evergreen/spruce we lost last night in the storm because it was hit by lightening. This doesn’t even come close. I’m old enough to have gotten use to the good ole’ boy system…which by the way is why Progressive/Democrats are losing. It’s all about their egos not about the issues.
So in other words, you think I’m lying.
As I wrote in my email to you, I’m done with this.
Does Patti see the sheet they are on? Are all the people missing?
You can find one person on the sheet you can click on the sheet and see the whole sheet and then let them know who is missing.
It was a sheet with only one signature.
I have written extensively about VTR and am disgusted by what they are doing. That being said, I think asking an elected official if they signed is a fair question to ask.
I thought it was a fair question as well, because I know that site’s not perfect and I wanted to get the truth straight from Tony Z. Apparently that touched a nerve though, hence Chris rushing to Tony’s defense.
Posting the question on his Facebook wall was in poor taste. I would have asked him directly.
I personally dont like it when politicians use Facebook to talk at us not with us… SO I think the fb question was fine. Facebook is a communication tool, NOT meant to be one way.
So am I wrong for not voting for anyone who did not sign the petition?
If you want to be a one-issue voter, that is certainly your right. But I can understand why someone might want to sign a petition and would choose not to. Frankly, I don’t know if Tony signed it or not either, nor do I care. I look at more than just that.
Jeff, folks chose to sign (or not sign) recall petitions for a number of different reasons. Instead of just reflexively not voting for anyone who didn’t sign a recall petition, try asking them why they didn’t sign.
Hopefully you’ll have more luck than I did when it comes to getting an answer.
aaaaand….
This bullshit needs to stop right now. Honestly, it needed to stop the moment you thought of doing this. But it’s too late now. I hope people take a good look at what you have become in your pursuit to become “famous on the Internet”. If you had sponsors, I would hope they’d run from you in an hysterical and horrified pack. I really am at a loss as to how you can look yourself in the mirror. I am at a loss as to how you can lay claim to supporting democratic principles at all.
Combing through the recall sigs by LEFT OR RIGHT, and publicly blacklisting and embarrassing individuals – whether well-known or not – IS GODDAM McCarthyism. You cannot put a Yellow Star armband on a person or “demand explanations”, or post names, or brownshirt American citizens “for a good cause”. You have sunk inextricably into immorality by so doing.
You realize that people will run from petitions and from any type of “real name” activism as a result from now on don’t you? But that is insignificant to the fact that you are screaming “Jude” at the top of your lungs, and engaging in an online Kristallnacht while feeling clever and snarky and oh-so loyally “blue”. You are no better than Sykes.
This is indefensible behavior. It is un-American, it is contemptible. Look at all of you here trying so earnestly to “find names on the sheet”. Just look at you.
“Q,” let me start by noting that this isn’t about whether Zielinski signed a petition or not; it’s about his response to my question. To be honest, Tony has nothing to be embarrassed about regarding whether he signed or not, but he should be embarrassed about how he reacted when asked about it.
Having said that, fame and blogging do not go hand in hand, and I don’t write to become famous; I do this because I love it.
However, thanks for expressing your opinions….I’m sure you and Capper would find you have a lot in common when it comes to what you think of me. Thankfully though, I’m not terribly worried about the insults hurled at me by someone hiding behind internet anonymity.
Oh, and comparing this to the holocaust?
Way beyond the pale.
I don’t understand how asking an elected official a question is McCarthyism…it seems to me that the point of Zach’s post was to illustrate what happened when he asked a question of an elected official. Simple as that.
It was the way he publicly asked him. He should have privately asked and then if he wanted to write about it that would be his prerogative. It was in extremely poor taste.
So wait….we’re not supposed to be able to ask our elected officials questions in public?
With all due respect, Tony Zielinski is a seasoned, experienced elected official. If he can’t handle a question as simple as “Did you sign a recall petition?” then perhaps he’s in the wrong line of work.
Then again, from what I’ve heard Tony wants to be “everything to everyone,” saying he supports the recall effort to his more liberal constituents while saying another thing to constituents who may not support the recall effort.
I’m inclined to believe that’s why Tony reacted the way he did to my question, because he didn’t want to have to take a public position on the issue and risk alienating folks.
“…because he didn’t want to have to take a public position on the issue and risk alienating folks.”
Alderman Zielinski currently has a post on his timeline stating:
“I support the Walker recall and am sure we will have a strong candidate that will unseat him. People should have the right to collectively bargain.”
It was posted sometime yesterday.
I don’t see the post in question.
If he says he supports the recalls, then I’ll take him at his word, but I’m still wondering why he felt the need to unfriend me and delete my question.
“I don’t see the post in question.”
Nor do I…Perhaps you need to be his ‘friend’ to know where he stands?
Tony says: I support the Walker recall and am sure we will have a strong candidate that will unseat him.
Oh my god, he is going to run for Governor. He actually thinks he should run.
Just imagine if VTR were thinking ahead and purposefully failed to enter certain “strategic” sheets, just to create such a brew-ha-ha. Let’s not allow this to happen.
Tony Z. says he supports the recall efforts, and that’s good enough for me. My issue is how he chose to react when I asked him the question. If he supports the recall efforts, then why did he feel the need to delete my question and unfriend me? That seems a little extreme to me.
See I disagree with all of the above. We have had discussions here that the recall is not one issue. That it is about the full range of topics not just Collective Bargaining. I personally feel that it is about the loss of collective bargaining rights.
Either way choosing to sign or not sign is hardly one issue and again I think Politicians are a different classification. I do not care about VTR, I would ask them anyway.
If a politician does not want to put their name on the line in terms of restoring workers rights to the people of WI then why should I vote for them?
I do not care if my neighbor, my kids teacher, the kid at mcdonalds or the person who owns the hardware store signed. I do care if a politician who wants to represent me signed.
I have asked a politician who they voted for before and will again.
Jim, thats why i say dont trust that. ask the politician directly
I agree with Jeff. There’s nothing wrong with asking an elected official a simple question. And Zach should not be accused of “liberal McCarthyism” for doing so. That’s an over-reaction.
FWIW, some of the endorsement questionnaires this year asked candidates whether they signed and/or circulated petitions. So I don’t think it’s an out-of-bounds question. Even if a candidate or incumbent felt uncomfortable discussing whether they signed, deleting a question and unfriending the asker is not the right way to address the discomfort. (As an aside, I think the Open Records Law needs some updating for 21st century technology. Many pols access Facebook, Twitter, etc., while “on the clock” at city hall or the courthouse, from government-owned computers, and use these services to discuss public business.)
And yeah, don’t trust the VTR database. I wanted to know my petition and line number as a bit of trivia, but my name’s not in the database. And I don’t know anyone else who signed the same sheet I did so I can’t try to find it that way. I searched the database by address (my husband came up; I didn’t, but we signed different sheets on different days), and several variant spellings of my name, and nothing came up. So, either VTR never entered my name, botched it so badly I can’t figure out how to find it, or the sheet I signed ended up with spilled coffee or flying away in the wind. I guess unless someone combs the actual petitions I’ll never know for sure whether my sheet even ended up at the GAB.
Yeah, I know better than to trust the VTR database, which is why I went directly to Tony to get a straight answer. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a straight answer; all I got was unfriended and my message deleted.
That’s what bothers me, not whether or not Tony Z. signed a petition.
Your blue fists are showing boys! You’re ready to bus throw Tony Z for not signing the recall petition. My ulta-liberal alderman in Madison didn’t sign either.
@ Jeff Simpson: “If a politician does not want to put their name on the line in terms of restoring workers rights to the people of WI then why should I vote for them?” I agree. Don’t.
By “restoring workers rights to the people of WI”, you mean the government workers of WI to the tune of approximately 9%, who’s positions are funded nearly exclusively by those in the private sector, right?
We have accused Rethugs of using VTR to intimidate. All I will say.
Fair point.
This is not the first time Tony has avoided answering questions and then cut people off from the process. He’s notorious for blocking people from his FB page, Twitter, and even deleting emails from his City email collection and not notifying his constituents of events that impact their lives. He’s not the hero of the people that he claims to be. He’s a bully who doesn’t like to be challenged, confronted, or accountable.
I’ve met Tony at least a dozen times over the last couple years, and held several conversations with him. He could never remember even meeting me from one time to the next. That changed when he stopped by my door for the third time in the last few months (again introducing himself as if we’d never met) asking if I would consider exchanging my Pierce yard sign for his. I made it clear that he did not have my vote for multiple reasons. One reason in particular sent him skittering away.
I also presented hard facts to several of my neighbors who then took down their Zielinski signs. It’s amazing what can happen with the truth in hand.
And how very interesting that Tony hasn’t forgotten me since.
Whatever definition you go with, McCarthyism at it’s heart is the hiding and trampling of the truth so necessary for people to make up their own minds. That Tony’s requests to “Stop Negative Campaigning” translates to “Stop telling the truth *sniff* -it’s embarrassing”, simply does not impress me.
Neither does his juvenile reaction to a valid question.
Agreed that we shouldn’t be giving the racist clowns at VTR any exposure, and using their flawed database does that. I’m getting very tired of the J-S and WSJ with their McCarthyist tactics digging through the database looking for stuff, and we shouldn’t be doing the same,
It’s fair to ask Zielinski if he signed or where he stands on the issue, but otherwise I don’t see a point behind caring too much about it. I think the guy’s sketchy for far more reasons than just the recall-signing issue.
I agree with ZachW–this is not some litmus test of who did/didn’t sign. But a public official in a political context is expected to respond to constituents on public issues.
It’s fair to say that recalling the Tyrant of Tosa–doing the actual work to boot this guy out of office (including signing petitions, door-to-door work, phone banking)–is one of the most critical issues facing the state and a top issue for any progressive, public or not. OUR city has taken the worst of the beatings–MPS, sick leave ordinance, MATC coup, Talgo–one right after another.
Zielinski, at least a self-proclaimed progressive, has been silent on the issue. This is odd coming from a guy who told me that his sweatshop legislation was crucial to the City’s progressive chops.
Frankly, I don’t care if he signed or not; again, that isn’t the issue. I do care that this incident reinforces his pattern of immaturity: if you disagree with him, he shuts you down, or worse, tries to intimidate you (hence, the GAB complaints being filed against him by District 14 people he has harassed about yard signs), or completely worse, if you’re a business person, his flexing of aldermaniac privilege to kill your business.
As an incident, this is troubling; as a pattern, this is as revealing as it is damning.