Verify the recall IS working, just as planned. Are they finding massive fraud like they promised before they even saw one signature? Of course not, there was not any!
The question I asked recently is Who is going to Veryify the Verify the Recall? Unfortunately many in the media treated them as if they were a nonpartisan watchdog group, who just wanted a fair election. Sadly that was not their goal. Intimidation was their goal and it is working. No one felt the need to ask why verify the recall people(who are for the most part anonymous), would want an online searchable database. Its one thing to want to “weed out fraud” but by extension, if you signed the recall petitions legitimately, then no need to be on a searchable database. UNLESS of course, you wanted these people to be searched!
The VTR group are modern day tories, who want to work up the right wing with fake stories of fraud, a big government/no privacy searchable database, and then shared anonymously as often as possible. They have no interest in a fair election they want to intimidate people who oppose them. The thing is they do not have the courage to do so themselves, so they put it there like this and hope that their followers take the lead.
Well it’s working.
H/T Root River Siren (this is worth a full read) where the Siren shares a few stories:
* A woman we know of was confronted loudly and inappropriately as church services ended. Her confronter screamed at her in front of parishioners and her minister that she had seen her name on Van’s list. Mortified, this bully went on to tell her she wished she had not prayed for her in the past…all because she signed a recall petition.
* A reader had a letter sent to his home that contained a photocopy of the petition his wife had signed and a copy of a pro-Walker speech. They took the time to include the message in all caps: “IT IS THE STATE VERSUS YOU.”
* The Coffee shop that received intimidating anonymous letters.
Yes the “Operation Verify the Recall” is working exactly as they planned. Scott Walker must be very happy!
On a happy note – the coffee shop owner had such good response from his supporters after word got out – he had to start up the roasters in the afternoon on Sunday just to keep up.
I didnt say they were going to win in the end, I just said this shows they are getting the results they were hoping for.
They are to silly and shortsighted to ever win in the end.
Though debatable, I’ll give you all of that which you just wrote, fine. But how can you say with a straight face that the left is completely free of incidence related to intimidation tactics related to this recall? http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/15/unions-harass-teacher-who-dared-to-speak-up-in-support-of-scott-walker/
Or that there was zero fraud in the petitions when 15% of the signatures can’t be verified. Plus there were thousands of duplicates. People were basically TOLD to sign more than once, which is ILLEGAL! http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/dec/02/one-wisconsin-now/one-wisconsin-now-says-its-legal-sign-walker-recal/
James,
You’re really slipping. The link to the Politifact article you posted says it is legal to sign more than once.
Take a break, man. You’re overheating.
He isn’t “overheating”, Steve.
It’s just disinformation, disingenuously spewed forth by James here, by others elsewhere.
All of James’ over-the-top histrionics are just a reflection of the artifice. He’s faking “passion” he doesn’t really have. He’s just here to spread the BS around, Koch-style.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/20/1066598/-David-Koch-on-Walker-recall-We-ve-spent-a-lot-of-money-in-Wisconsin-We-re-going-to-spend-more-?via=siderecent
Who ever said the left was100 percent pure? Purer than it’s possible for any large, human-organized movement to be? The posts here, of course, focus on the outrageous affronts from the right, to be sure. However, the transgressions of the left are elsewhere hyped beyond all recognition. This very morning, there’s a letter in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel complaining that protesters last spring “trashed our beautiful state Capitol.” Well, they didn’t, it’s still beautiful and aside from some minor cleanup and grass seeding, it didn’t cost the state squat to let its citizens exercise their free speech rights. And yet that brand of mostly fact-free vilification continues. Point is, in any large group you can expect a few bad apples, but on the right, the bad apples are so common as to have pretty much spoiled the entire bushel basket. Protest movements by definition are boisterous and loud and not always pleasant but aside from the beer poured over Rep. Robin Voss’ head by ONE GUY, we’ve seen nothing from the left like the more or less daily transgressions of the petition-ripping, sign-defacing, phone-harassing, lying right.
@ Jimbobobbityboo
“But how can you say with a straight face that the left is completely free of incidence related to intimidation tactics related to this recall? ”
She didn’t say that, did she?
James Booth, ladies and gentlemen, the Rudy (“A noun, a verb and 9/ll”) Giuliani of Wisconsin. A noun, a verb and then some sort of deflection.
By the way, big boy, the whole, wingnut-clever “how can you say THAT with a straight face” artifice is getting old. Same with, “You gotta be FRIGGIN kidding me”.
What else ya got?
Look, we get it. You’re paid to disagree with everything that any progressive says here, and, without the benefit of facts, act as if everything you say has the stamp of “there’s JUST no other way of looking at it” infallibility on it, but the way that you say almost everything has all the sophistication and significance of what a junior high schoolboy writes in the yearbook of someone he doesn’t know.
@ JimbobobbityBOO!
I’m STILL waiting for you to move beyond deflection and rightwing talking points over on the comment thread of the “84 Documents” post. Or was that just another one of your drive-by deflections?
Here’s our exchange there:
Zuma: Appellate Court – “Without a doubt, the Legislature made a conscious choice to involve private lawyers in what gives every appearance of an attempt – albeit poorly disguised – to cloak the private machinations of Wisconsin’s Republican legislators in the shroud of attorney-client privilege. What could have – indeed should have – been accomplished publicly instead took place in private, in an all but shameful attempt to hide the redistricting process from public scrutiny.”
James Booth: “Redistricting is an OLD card game. Republicans just have a better hand this time. Deal with it. Elections have consequences.”
Zuma: Enough generic rightwing talking points and deflection. Stop running away from the substantive points put before you.
Do you remember the old joke about Rudy Giuliani. Who is Rudy Giuliani, asked. The answer? A noun, a verb and “9/11″.
Who is James Booth, you ask? The answer: A noun, a verb and “[deflection] and a rightwing talking point”.
Your ignorance and tunnel-vision, whether feigned or real, isn’t funny anymore.
The Court called the conduct of Republicans here “shameful”. There’s no real way to spin that, is there?
Stop spinning, and “deal with it”.
SO, JIMBO, TO RECAP. DRIVE-BY DEFLECTION AND CHANGING THE SUBJECT, YOUR MAINSTAYS. . .NOT PERSUASIVE.
WHO EXACTLY IS PAYING YOU TO POST YOUR SOPHOMORIC, RIGHTWING TRIPE HERE? ALEC? AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY? THE KOCHS? WHAT’S THAT? OH, YEAH. THEY’RE ALL ONE AND THE SAME.
Jimbo, how much are they spending on you?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/20/1066598/-David-Koch-on-Walker-recall-We-ve-spent-a-lot-of-money-in-Wisconsin-We-re-going-to-spend-more-?via=siderecent
Zuma,
I know there might be an argument for my joining in the creative nickname game, but I’ll leave that to one who appears to be more polished and geared for it.
Paid? I wish. Paid for what? hanging around here disagreeing with you? hardly seems like money well spent to me. Don’t take that the wrong way. I know you feel like your “kicking my ass” in this regard but my Grandfather told me once that just because everyone around you agrees with you doesn’t mean you’re right. So that’s why I come here. To be amongst those that have differing opinions. I have no illusions about changing minds. And mine has not changed too much. Most of the time I’m busy learning about the people and groups I’m accused of belonging to.
Around here it comes down to credibility. I know the things that I hate about the right. And I freely admit what those are. And that’s why I’m not a Republican. But around here there’s so much BS and denial about the left. For example, I would never write a post about how the right intimidated people during the recall process, (and they did) when I knew full well that the left did that crap too! I also wouldn’t write a piece about how there was NO recall signature fraud, when there very likely was, even if it was minuscule. I wouldn’t constantly write that there was a million valid signatures when we all know there wasn’t.
If anything I possess higher credibility than some of the bloggers here. I was born and raised in Madison. Live here now. I don’t work for the government. I pay a lot of taxes to Madison and Wisconsin. And it’s been a long tough few years, as you’ve noticed! I employ 38 people. 21 of which are full time. I pay for 75% of their health insurance. They pay 25%. I hope I can keep that up. A couple of these guys blogging here are government employees. And while that’s all well and good, of course they hate Walker. I just want what’s best for Wisconsin. I’m not burdened by any personal bias on the issue of collective bargaining for public workers.
OK…no talking points.
I get it. A judge told the GOP that their attorneys had to turn over some documents to Dems. What laws were broken as it relates to the secret meetings and secrecy agreements related to redistricting? What charges have been or will be filed? IF none, then all this is is monkeys throwing feces. That said, I think it was dumb for the republicans to use this tactic. But only because it was not necessary. It’s about as popular to the general population as 14 senators moving to Illinois for two weeks. (oops! Is that a talking point?? Sorry, no way to bring up my disdain for that act without it sounding such)
I know. Hard to believe, but I actually believe the things that I say here. Not a paid puppet for the right.
I do look forward to maybe an exchange with you that could be free of the labels that you like to hurl around. ie., wingnut, rightwing, Rudy references, Koch references. In other words, talking points.
Jimmy
Not sure who you are referring to but i am not a “government employee” nor am I in a union although I wish I was at times.
One thing to clear up. The four senators challenged a total of one signature for fraud and it turns out Mr. Sukow lives in Fitz the Elder’s district….Fitz just has no idea who he represents….or maybe he does.
So there was NO fraud in the four senators recall petitions. I also stand by the million signatures….
how can you stand by the million signatures if it was stated that it’s not illegal to sign more than once, was encouraged to sign more than once, was admitted to signing more than once, was verified some signed more than once?
Thats simple because one show me where it was verified they signed more than once and two because I know how United Wisconsin handled the signatures.
As Steve pointed out before, it was because of the VTR loons saying they were going to collect signatures and burn them that they told people to sign more than once.
“it was because of the VTR loons saying they were going to collect signatures and burn them that they told people to sign more than once.”
So we agree, people signed more than once. People accuse me of deflecting all the time. For pete’s sake!!
There is a big difference between people signing twice(out of necessity) and both signatures being counted by United WI.
The only counts are those by GAB. No other counts are anything but estimates. GABs are the legal tally.
Tally Ho.
Look, James, there was a method to my madness.
Let’s just assume that you’re a sincere and uncompensated advocate. This comment of yours seems heartfelt enough. Unfortunately, there is a deeper and more fundamental problem here.
It’s that you write, and seem to think, like Sarah Palin speaks. It’s a word, thought and concept salad every time. Honestly, James, I just don’t have the time, patience or desire anymore to dissect paragraphs like the paragraph above that begins with “I get it. ”
There is just so much wrong with that one paragraph alone. And, as I was reading it, having reached a tipping point, I said, “That’s it.”
The truth is you don’t “get it”, and I’m tired of trying to explain “it” to you. I could deconstruct that paragraph, but it would take a while, and I truly have better and more important things to do.
You have convinced me that you’re sincere, and I do want to thank you for making the effort that you made to convince me of same. That said, James, you have also, once and for all, convinced me that you and I are never going to be able to have a truly meaningful conversation.
“That said, James, you have also, once and for all, convinced me that you and I are never going to be able to have a truly meaningful conversation”
I think we just did.
No, James, we didn’t.
That you think so doesn’t surprise me.
In any event, it’s academic.
You don’t possess any more credibility than anyone here.
I’m one of the government workers you were referring to, but I’ll have you know my personal bias on this issue has nothing to do with my union membership and EVERYTHING to do with my other responsibilities as a husband and a father. You can rail about us evil government workers and how we’re leeching off taxpayers until you’re blue in the face, but just keep in mind that many of us aren’t fighting this fight because we’re union members; we’re fighting because we’re husbands (or wives) and parents.
I’m fighting this fight because I want my kids to have the same opportunities I had as a kid, and I’m fighting this fight because I don’t want to have to struggle to make ends meet simply because Scott Walker wanted to score some ideological points by attacking public employee unions.
I’ve seen my take-home pay cut by hundreds of dollars every month, yet by your logic I should be happy to be pushed ever closer to having to make some very tough choices in order to make ends meet.
From the bottom of my heart I’m truly saddened to see so many of my fellow Wisconsinites celebrating Scott Walker’s attack on public employees, the vast majority of whom are solidly middle class.
If you’re tired of “talking points” and the lack of credibility here, then I’m going to officially invite you to stop visiting, because I’m tired of your broken record.
You have no credibility as far as I’m concerned, because you’ve done nothing but spout rhetoric since you surfaced here. Don’t like what I’ve written? Then leave.
@Zach:
I said: “A couple of these guys blogging here are government employees. And while that’s all well and good, of course they hate Walker”
Then you said: “You can rail about us evil government workers and how we’re leeching off taxpayers until you’re blue in the face,”
How do you take my comment to be railing about evil government workers, or insinuating that you’re a leech ?
But of course you’re biased. You stood to lose a lot under Act 10. As did my own sister. And I’d be upset too. But millions in the private sector have been taking it in the shorts long before Walker came along. As the health of the private sector goes, so must the public.
Beyond that, talking points aside, I sincerely believe that public unions exert too much money, power, and influence over the political process and public unions. This is why collective bargaining in public unions needs to stop.
Such power led Victor Gotbaum, the leader of District Council 37 of the AFSCME in New York City, to brag in 1975: “We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss.” And that indeed is what happens. And the taxpayer is left out of the whole process. There is nothing that compares to this influence. Not even the Koch’s. Mostly because they don’t control huge blocks of the voting public through public unions.
But it’s fine if you don’t want to hear more from me here. Just say the word.
really a 1975 quote?
the difference between the teachers unions and david koch? The teachers actually live in WI.
And the teachers and public employees actually pay taxes here, and give a damn about what happens here after the Kochs are gone. If Jimmy Boy wants to go there n the next few months, BRING IT.
More unappetizing word salad. Get to the point, man.
I signed at least 30 times…I was a circulator, and my name is at the bottom of, oh I don’t know…500 to 600+ names.
You can sign more than once…legally as a circulator, but you can also sign more than once as a citizen…and that is legal.
You just can’t vote more than once. But no petition signer, or circulator has to be a registered voter. Just a resident of voting age.
Seems like you are reading between the words and the lines.
Nope I can read your lines very clearly. Your full of sh*t.
Yeah…God help the poor guy if he happened to lean to the right a little and told anyone. You’d run him out on a rail. The public unions elevated that to an art form. We saw that first hand downtown Madison this past summer. I own a small business in Madison and was asked to hang a sign in one of my locations that said, “We support worker’s rights”. I chose not to. Not because I don’t support worker’s rights but because I support all worker’s rights, including the 90% that don’t work for a public union. Soon after this I found myself on a boycott list. That’s the blue fister’s way. Thankfully it didn’t impact me much because most people are not that insane.
I hope the boycott worked.
By the way, why is putting a sign up that says “I support workers’ rights” not representive of your stated view that you “support all workers’ rights.” I suspect this is another example of you not understanding what you yourself wrote. Idiot.
Please advise me of the name of your business so that I can boycott it. Whenever possible I try to avoid patronizing businesses that want to take away my human rights. This is all part of that Free Market thing you righties are always braying about, consumer choice and all that.
“human rights”. Spoken like a true public employee. Show me where collective bargaining for a government worker is a “human right”.
You’d be damn surprised how many businesses you already patronize that QUIETLY agree with me.
Jimbobobbityboo: “You’d be damn surprised how many businesses you already patronize that QUIETLY agree with me.”
Here we go.
Jimbo, you tried to trot that particular “I have evidence, I just can’t reveal it” canard out once before.
Give it a rest.
Go check out the UN charter on human rights, idiot.
Article 23(4) “Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.” When written that referred to exactly that, TRADE UNIONS. We know this because first, there were no government unions when the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was drafted, and secondly FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt had a hand in drafting it. And we know FDR had this to say about the matter:
“Meticulous attention,” the president insisted in 1937, “should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.“
Also noteworthy in the text of the document:
Article 20 2) “No one may be compelled to belong to an association.”
Kind of like forcing public union members to pay dues to public unions?
Jim,
And you would be surprised at how many businesses you patronize that disagree with you. We are aqdivided state.
By the way kristi is far from innocent http://www.politiscoop.com/us-politics/wisconsin-politics/598-kristi-lacroix-so-misunderstood-where-is-walker.html
Another excellent article by the Siren. I hope that Robin Wilson has made this letter available for public viewing in his coffee shop. I was extremely upset with the GAB’s ruling to make the recall signatures viewable on the internet for the world to see. Because of doing that they’ve only divided us further apart as a State & as a Nation. Hopefully no one will be seriously injured (physically or otherwise) because of their unwise action. The damage from the hatred that has already occurred will take generations to recover from. This proves once again that the GAB is very right-winged biased even though they claim to be non-partisan.
Wilson’s Coffee shop is my favorite place to go. Alas, they’ve got stuff on their shelves that my three year old loves to investigate, but still, you can always count on good coffee, nice people, and no asshole Republicans.
Nonsense! I was just there last week! 🙂
Great. James just admitted he’s an asshole Republican. You can all rest easy now that he’s out of the closet.
Hey Jan. How are you?
I prefer Michaelangelo’s. Sam’s a great guy and a progressive.
In no way is Verify The Recall working to intimidate anyone. Our only goal is our namesake: to verify the recall. From day one, we have firmly stated that the people of Wisconsin have the right to recall any elected official, including the Governor. We work only to ensure that the *people* of Wisconsin make such decisions, and that such decisions are not made by fraudulent practices. Clean and honest election processes (such as recalls) are the foundation to the very freedoms we possess as Americans. Therefore, upholding the integrity of such election processes is vital to the future of America.
We adamantly oppose anyone (from any political pursuation) harassing anyone else of an opposite political pursuation. Our efforts to create an online, searchable database are made to empower Wisconsinites to protect their own identities.
On a final note, those individuals who sign a recall petition are taking political action, and (as confirmed by Wisconsin’s Attorney General as well as the GAB) have no expectation of privacy. Such a standard was made clear during the recalls of Spring, 2011, when all recall petitions were posted to the GAB’s website. Individuals who did not realize their recall signature would be public informaiton did not, unfortunately, fully educate themselves about the recall process, but the responsibility to educate the signers lies with the signers themselves.
Additionally, Verify The Recall has repeatedly encouraged domestic abuse support (or similar) groups to contact us with any concerns they have with an online, searchable database so that individuals with such privacy concerns could keep their address information private. To date, no such groups have contacted us. We are fully open to these conversations and will have a policy in place for such individuals prior to launching an online, searchable database.
I agree that the signatures are public record. Anyone who wants to see them should be able to go to the GAB and check them out. Except for an activist judge, these would not be online. It is also different being online in .pdf forms and then VTR putting them down in a searchable database.
Then put out there for anonymous people all over the country to search. VTR has no idea who is searching the database. They are also hardly trained nor qualified to tell us what is a legit signature or not? yet they are saying things like h “another 3,358 signatures needing further investigation.” What exactly is this based on?
Secondly why put the verified signatures online. I personally dont care if my signature is online because I legitimately signed thepetition and will tell anyone anywhere anytime that I did and why i did. I am also not worried about anonymous letters as the one in the story. I have been blogging for a while now and get them all the time anyway. My question is why post my signature online since it is a verified legit signature in the recall of Scott Walker/Rebecca Kleefisch.
There is only one reason….see story above! When VTR says they oppose “anyone harrassing anyone else” they say that with a wink wink nudge nudge …….
I am amazed at the people who decide when they dont get get get everything they feel “they” deserve how they decide they will take back the election that they won fair and square. I expect that those of you writing in right now are part of a public union and let me guess you aren’t getting it all handed to you anymore. Maybe you might be held accountable for the crap job you do
Well welcome to the rest of the world where you just don’t get everything handed to you:) the rest of us who pay for some of our healthcare and don’t get our retirement handed to us. By the way Scott walker was voted in by 54% of the wisconsin voters not 1% Idiot.
Hi kris.
Contrary to what you may believe, public employees actually did pay towards their health insurance premiums, and a good number also paid towards their pensions.
It’s also worth noting that public employee unions (at least the state employee unions) had already agreed to steeper concessions on pension and health insurance payments BEFORE Gov. Walker decided to go after their collective bargaining rights.
Gov. Walker admitted under oath to Congress that his decision to take away collective bargaining for public employees had NOTHING to do with improving the state’s fiscal situation.
If you’re going to come here and try to refute our points, come with something other than the same tired talking points we’ve heard before.