The Wisconsin GOP made national news yet again! This time it was not Paul Ryan\'s Hypocrisy, or Scott Walker\'s incompetence, or Jill Bader\'s racist tweets. This time it is Republican State Senate candidate, Dane Deutsch joining the Hitler admiration society.
In case Mr. Deutsch did not know:
Hitler started World War II by invading Poland in 1939. Under his leadership, Nazi Germany killed 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.
Abraham Lincoln, the United States’ 16th president, led the country through the Civil War.
One of these things is NOT like the other!
Politics anywhere should just not bring up Nazis, Fascists, and Hilter no matter what point they’re trying to make. It always ends up badly, no matter what side you’re on. Even if you’re trying to make a statement, don’t bring up the man who was responsible for leading a group of people to the path of committing genocide.
I understand the point he’s trying to make, but that was a stupid move. Godwin’s law is not a good idea.
Hitler*
Wow.
Sschutt your cake-hole you Nazi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg @ 3:40
(repressed Python fan maybe?)
… All right.
I’ll say this. That is about the only time I’ve seen it not make a controversy. 😀
Well Sugar, I think I just baked up a big shitcake of controversy in my Uber-Comment below, Nice rosy Hitlers aaallll over it.
hopefully no one knows my address.
hur hurr
I agree with you it never turns out well does it.
Yeah T., I agree. Politicians should never utter the word Hitler. It never turns out well.
But please PP, tell me what part of the statement you disagree with. Do you believe Hitler was a weak leader? The point here is that Lincoln’s character was good, while Hitler’s was not.
By the way, judging by those involved and the results that ensued, I would consider 2008 the year of dumb.
I think we all agree that bringing in Hotler never turns out good. Secondly, I personally would not call Hitler a leader anymore than I would call Mugabe or Kim Jong IL leaders. Not in my book anyway. Dictatorship is not leading.
Finally the comparison is just plain stupid. Here is a better one.
Lincoln was a great leader who in times of racial turmoil decided to fight a war as the right thing to do. Another Republican president, Richard nixon, in times of racial turmoil, jumped on the bandwagon of fear and racism and put winning elections over the right thing to do. A much better compare/contrast!
Ooh good one! Don’t forget the ever-popular Lincoln-Kennedy comparisons and coincidences.
http://www.sportsblink.com/mounted-memories/lincoln-kennedy-oakland-raiders-autographed-photograph-3350711.php
This lincoln kennedy?
Lincoln went to war to preserve the Union not to free the slaves. Leading the Republican Party, Lincoln was pushing to contain slavery to those states that already possessed it.
The Emancipation Proclamation came 17 months after Fort Sumter was fired upon. The secession of 7 states came a month (plus) before Sumter.
You can join the US but you cannot opt out.
So tell me forgot, what happened in 2008 that was the year of dumb specifically?
Well duh…we elected Democrats in Congress and President Obama! That’s why it was the year of dumb!
< /conservative>
Because a lot of uniformed people came out of the woodwork because they thought it would be cool to vote for a black guy. (Not saying everyone who voted for Obama was like this, but you can’t deny there were many). It was based on nothing more than a vague notion of hope and change. How’s that working out now.
Pretty darn good. Except for the Patriot Act and the torture changes that were not overturned.Solid foreign policy results, a thriving DJIA, strong bipartisan effort on education, too numerous to mention captured or killed Al Qaeda leaders, thwarted terrorist plots around the world, increase in jobs 9 months in a row, Predator kill teams in Pakistan, out of Iraq, a banking industry flush with cash, a working auto industry,low interest rates and maybe a few more if I thought about. But I imagine that you have a few nits to pick.
Let’s see….
Granted, things have been far from perfect, but in my opinion they could be worse, but perhaps that’s because I tend to be an optimist.
I think I understand Godwin’s point but laws are made to be broken. (Hopefully by me. But don’t you think a society (ours) that is THAT haunted by a concept (in this case Nazis) that it is likely that is because we have failed to learn that lesson? They say persistent imagery in dreams means that you have not yet gotten the message. I think that is true of Dear Adolf.
I don’t think people should not “say Hitler”. A lot of it is just gratuitous insult, but that doesn’t mean Hitler has no cause to be further understood, or that it is bad to evaluate what happened then and be mindful because human nature has not changed, and we as hairless Apes are far from immune to future (or current?) Hitlers. Just uttering the words “never again” does not keep similar forces at bay, nor does it help people recognize updated and upgraded propagandist techniques. The Hitler mystique helps muddy how things like that can take hold. and makes people more vulnerable to repeats. A Chilean online friend certainly talked as if he would resonate with Hitler’s methods and recalls in his lifetime (He’s 25)people being Disappeared and tortured in state prisons. A Venezuelan friend would certainly have many comparisons to draw between Hitler and Chavez. And once I became more familiar with Chavez rhetoric I was amused (in an unpleasant way) to note that Tea Partiers use a technique that is a mirror of Chavez. I was going to write a blog post about that but a.) no one reads it and b.) there’s not time
Point: Politicians re-use the same techniques, knowing them is essential
sub point: All internet forums degenerate (or begin as) to enormous piles of crap. Hitler is just one piquant note in that crap-bouquet and avoiding mentioning him is no hedge against Forum Crap-ness. it happens with or without Adolf.
And omg Hitler WAS a leader. of course he was.
to lead –
To guide or direct in a course.
To be a channel or conduit for
To guide the behavior or opinion of; induce: led us to believe otherwise.
To direct the performance or activities of: lead an orchestra.
To inspire the conduct of: led the nation in its crisis.
To play a principal or guiding role in: lead a discussion; led the antiwar movement.
To be at the head of
To not like the course, end results, or the style of leadership does not negate the leading role itself. Hitler was a leader. You can make moral judgments on the man, but those judgments do not alter the word (leader) or the historical fact that he led his nation.
If he wasn’t a leader, none of that would ever have happened. He would have been a misfit ranting alone in a cardboard box.
Second, it’s okay IMO if people say “it’s like Hitler”. Hitler got where he did by resonating with innate human behavior. The better understood those factors and processes are the ‘safer” we all are. Any leader or wannabe leader can use those same principles and aspects of unchanging human nature to suit their own purposes at any time.
Techniques of communication used by Hitler are very common. You don’t have to be a goose-stepping German in a grainy film to see or to use them.
MANY “leaders” of today use similar techniques to psychologically bind their followers to them, to persuade and to frame the issues themselves. Hitler and his propagandists directed their national dialogue thorough subtle (and not so subtle) influence. Many people today use the same means. People will probably freak at me saying this, because everyone knows Nazis all look like Commandant Klink and used Gas Chambers, nothing else. You MUST refer to Hitler as a boogieman, like Satan, not as a flesh and blood politician.
But masses of people are moved by some predictable behaviors.It was alarming to see how many people came passionately out for the woodwork during the Obama CHANGE campaign, and how many many people had Yellow ribbons right after 911. Certain things move entire nations, if you capture that momentum, that’s a lot of power, and stuff can happen fast. Sometimes it’s only a Democratic presidential win, annoying but no Auschwitz. other times it gets darker. it just depends on the social undercurrents and the right people pushing the right buttons.
Glenn Beck does not move people thru magic. Nor did Obama (back when he could).
Sarah Palin, she really gets ’em going. Huge masses of people ready to do their bidding. It’s impressive. Serious shit IMO.
That Tea party guy you just had saying they would resort to violence. Student riots in the 60s, France just recently. It takes the right combination of factors, but if they exist, it’s gas on dry wood.
Not that long ago Wi Senator Joe McCarthy certainly moved (another leader!) people to some odd things.he was pretty darn hard to stop for a while.
People still respond to the types of things they responded to with Hitler. Humans don’t change, neither do those who would lead them down this or that path.
I guess it all depends on if you see Hitler as some bizarre otherworldly creature that can occur only once on a Planet, or if you see him as a politician gone terribly wrong.
I myself see him as a politician gone terribly wrong, so it seems logical that mini-Hitlers and Hitler-y impulses are gonna be found ALL over.
You know – I’m not even sure he killed the most, that he had the biggest genocide. There’s tons and tons of genocides. We just don’t know about them all.Or if we know about it, we might not even classify it as a genocide. For example, people will often get quite huffy if you say the U.S government’s policy on Native America tribes was organized genocide. But, it was. I grew up playing Cowboys and Indians.Indians were just The Things You Shot At, so I sure never realized it was a Genocide until I was quite old. As a result of how the situation was labeled and “framed” from my childhood on. It’s not easy to step outside your lifelong thoughts and get a fresh view.
Any amount of fact-checking proves that was carefully planned, government sanctioned, systematically carried out genocide, enthusiastically supported by the American voting population. We don’t classify those Presidents as “Hitlers” If you even think hey, maybe that President did a genocide, you can get lynched. I use a fake name for a reason.
(die gedanken sind frei…nicht!)
you can get pissed if you want, but read the history of it. it just happened that way. The “best” you can say is “it was a necessary genocide” which I think is total BS but to argue that it was NOT a genocide, can’t be done.
So I was particularly disturbed at the irony some time back, of Nancy Pelosi spearheading that condemnation of China for genocide of Tibetans, Or however that went.
No U.S. politician will ever use the word “genocide” re: our own native Americans on our own soil. And no US pol will ever think of any kind of apology for that, they’ll just be happy to point sanctimonious fingers ate nations we look down on, like China, Unless of course we wanna be Oshkosh Truck or RoJo and move business here. Then China is NOT a problem. If their genocide and Human rights abuses create a cheap workforce that we can exploit and make the highest possible profits on, then, more power to ’em. Torch those fuckers, we have a factory to build. Just don’t burn up so many that there isn’t enough cheap workforce left.
It’s all freakin’ relative. And if you look very closely,or even if you don’t expend a lot of effort but simply quit lying to yourself, human nature is crap.
[My apologies for boring the livin’ shit outta you all. But that’s the way I roll, and just the typing of this was Herculean so by gawd I’m gonna post it, too much work to self-censor now. And I won’t have too much pity anyways,cuz if I annoy you, then you’re an idiot for wasting your time reading what I say. U should know by now!
Blame yourself man, blame yourself!]
A politician gone wrong? Nope.
John Edwards is a politician gone wrong.
You are mistaken about Hitler; to render his warmaking and genocide activities as a politician gone wrong is painfully inaccurate and ignorant of the history. Commonly used communication and leadership skills do not ennoble Hitler to any degree.
Hey PP, does the year of dumb include someone like Rep. Alan Grayson? You have highlighted a couple of people running for Congress who have mentioned Nazis. I’m not exactly surprised that you and Zach and others left out Rep. Grayson, who compared Republicans to Nazis burning the Reichstag. He also calls his opponent a member of the Taliban. The offensive and dumb comments go on and on and on from that guy…
Another nominee is President Obama who said he wants Republicans to sit in the back of the bus. Really? So much for the guy who was supposed to transcend partisan politics. Now he’s reduced to using racial imagery — because that will really bring us all together.