The school budget meetings have taken up the headlines lately, and they probably will for some time to come. As we saw during the days leading up to the election, this issue is not just affecting us, but almost every community in the surrounding area. While there is no one solution, there is one topic that has been written about that needs to be addressed; that is the issue of teacher pay. Our teachers are not only members of our community, they are also guardians of the future. We trust them to teach our children not only how to survive in the world, but to thrive in its hope. While it is impossible to put a price tag on the job teachers do, some people seem to think that they can, and that we are currently overpaying for their services. Right now teachers are saddled with the burden of overcrowded classrooms(which are getting worse), the decline of community social services, the pressure of standardized tests, the rise of poverty, unemployment, and the high divorce rate, to name a few. When you factor in the level of education teachers have and the many personal hours and dollars they spend, our teachers are vastly underpaid. To start cutting their pay and benefit packages, will not only force teachers to start leaving their profession, but schools will also be unable to attract the best and brightest students to become teachers in the future.
Another argument that you will hear, is that teachers work just nine months out of the year. While that is their contract time, if you know a teacher, you know they work countless (unpaid) hours over and above their contract. Not only do teachers have to have a degree, they also need continuing education (paid for at their own expense)to keep their license and become better teachers. They do not advertise these hours, because most accept it as part of their job.
Since many will not, allow me to offer up a few examples. There is the teacher who in order to help defray the costs of an important yearly field trip for the students, spends nights and weekends working the concession stand at the Alliant Energy Center to fundraise. There is the school social worker who helped a family get needed ongoing mental health services. After the family was turned down numerous times, she facilitated between the school, the insurance company, the hospital, the teachers and numerous doctors, never taking NO for an answer. There is the teacher who works in a school that has an over 50% poverty rate, who spends her own money to buy school supplies as well as winter coats, hats, mittens, toothbrushes, and other toiletries for her students. Furthermore, there is the teacher that spends his lunches building relationships with his students and mediating conflicts, so that his students can be present to learn. More teachers than not spend countless evenings, weekends, holidays, lunches, and other free time, grading papers and tests, tutoring their students, mentoring their students, planning and running extracurricular activities for their students, building relationships with their students’ parents, etc. There are also numerous cases of teachers voluntarily spending their summers “off” taking classes, writing curriculum, writing assessments, teaching summer school, tearing down and setting up their classrooms, etc…
Finally, some will compare the teaching profession to people in the business world. Let me leave you with one example. The Cottage Grove Village Board recently switched village planners to Graef, whose least expensive planner charges $81/hour. Graef also actually charged the village taxpayers approximately $2500 to review documents and prep work(and got away with it). Let’s not give in to short – sighted ideas and make sure to reward our teachers and keep our schools strong!
Where to begin…
First and foremost, I have a number of teachers in my immediate family. And like pretty much anyone else, I’ve had some tremendous teachers who played a very influential role in my life. Also had some truly horrible ones whose impact would have been more positive had they handed out the books and disappeared for the semester.
A lot of what I read reeks of the arrogance that the teaching profession is so noble, so superior to what anyone else does. There are tons of important jobs where people play a critical role in improving the lives of others. Sorry but it’s just not that much different or more special than others. And considering how difficult it is to actually fire bad teachers compared to many other professions, trying to take a moral high ground over others is not only egotistical, but inaccurate in many cases.
The continuing education argument would be laughable if it weren’t…well just plain ignorant. The vast majority of jobs today require people continue to improve their skills – either explicitly as a job or industry requirement (every licensed insurance and securities agent) or implicitly (as in do more work, better and faster or else you’re fired). The only real difference is that in teaching, it’s more regimented – more structured. But by the same means, it’s a hell of a lot less results driven. I know teachers who took classes & got their masters just for the pay bump – even though it really had nothing to do with their current role or what they were interested in moving into. I’ll stack up what I need to do for my continuing ed as a programmer/interactive developer/CBT developer with what is required for any teaching job. I don’t keep up & the competition flies by me like I’m standing still.
Teachers should be well paid – and for the most part they are. Just in a different manner than private industry. Generally the starting salary is lower. But the health benefits beat the hell out of what the rest of us have. Our insurance is through my wife’s company. Between what we pay and what the company pays, it’s about $7000 a year. Plus co-pays. Add in the retirement plan & pension that allows for retirement as early as a decade before the rest of us & that lower starting salary isn’t so bad.
I dont think what they do is superior to what everyone else does, it is more important than most. I could also make the same claim for Firefighters, police, emt’s etc… Many people who perform a public service are underpaid. I just chose to focus on education and teachers!
As for how hard it is to fire a “bad” employee, it should be. That is one of the many strengths of the union. They protect ALL teachers not just a few. It is hard but not impossible like it should be in every position. If someone is truly bad(which is most dont define), then you can dismiss them you just need to take the proper steps.
You dont really think that a teacher getting their masters does not affect them to the positive? Noone just gets their masters for the pay bump. They do it to become better.
As for how they compare to the “private sector” thats easy enough –
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/why-are-25-hedge-fund-man_b_531420.html
Why Are 25 Hedge Fund Managers Worth 658,000 Teachers?
“Why Are 25 Hedge Fund Managers Worth 658,000 Teachers?”
Because being a hedge fund manager is much more difficult than being a teacher.
658,000 times more difficult?
:p
Absolutley. HF managers don’t get paid unless they get results.
Not many people can take that type of pressure and even fewer are able to consistently find and take advantage of alpha edges.
No it shouldn’t. If you want to make the argument that it is an important job – then being able to fire bad employees is a requirement. If it’s no big deal for bad employees to continue on, it’s not a critical job at all.
Personally, I believe that teachers are very important – which is exactly why the bad eggs need to be weeded out. What’s especially sad about this – for most levels & subjects, here in Wisconsin we have tons of good people to take the place of the bad ones. So the unions are protecting the bad when there are literally hundreds of good candidates who’d love the job. They’re not all like this – I have one brother who’s a Tech Ed teacher & hasn’t had a ton of competition & no problem finding jobs. My other brother – with 5 years teaching in AZ, and frankly a stellar resume with impressive recommendations really struggled to land a job when he came back to Wisconsin. He was broad field Social Studies & history, and faced 200 other applicants for the same position.
There are definitely bad teachers out there, and it is much to hard to fire them. Unions go too far to protect failing employees. I work in a teachers union, and I’d be the first to vote for decertifying my union. This article says it all.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/22/new-york-teachers-paid-to_n_219336.html
The mere fact that this article was picked up by both MSNBC and FoxNews makes it verifiable by the extreme left and extreme right.
I don’t know that teachers are underpaid, but I certainly wouldn’t argue that they’re overpaid. As Locke noted, if benefits are factored in, the total compensation package for teachers (or many govt. employees for that matter) is very fair, and I say that as someone who works for state government.
Zach,
I am not really advocating that they get a huge pay raise. What I am trying to get across is that
1. Cutting teacher pay and benefits is not the way to balance the budget and it doesnt fix the problem.
2. Where is the outrage on things that matter. People want to cut the pay and benefits package of people making 50 k a year and then stories come out like the 25 hedge fund managers = 658000 teachers and are greeted with a big yawn. The story today in the paper was the republicans are united in stopping a watered down wall st regulation package. You could cut every teacher in the countries salary in half and you still wouldnt come close to the damage done by wall st to our economy.
HF managers dont get paid unless they get results??? Have you read a paper? they are getting paid for crashing our economy…and walking away with millions upon millions….
They are paid a performance fees, which is typically 20% of performance. The individuals on the list, were paid because they correctly bet against the banks who were creating the subprime loans. In other words, they didn’t crash the economy, the just saw that the emperor had no clothes before you or I.
Maybe good teachers are underpaid, but bad ones are overpaid because they are being paid at all. When you figure out how to cut through the union dynamic of treating everyone the same, then we can reasonably discuss teacher pay.
Well for one who decides what a bad teacher is? The union dynamic is pure democracy in the workplace and letting teachers speak in a unified voice. The union is there to make sure everyone is treated the same way – fairly!
and super ID….were these guys paid 20% of their performance?
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article7100961.ece
GS is not a hedge fund. They are an I Bank.
Ok, but that’s the tradeoff you choose. Either you pay and reward based on individuals or you protect the lazy and bad in the group out of some sense of “fairness.”
Why are you even debating this? It’s completely irrelevant. It’s like saying, it’s not fair that the Waupaca County DA get’s paid a tiny fraction of what Robert Shapiro gets paid or what Johnnie Cochrane got.
Where the money comes from makes all the difference in the world. When it’s private sector money we have no place in telling a company what they can pay. When it’s our tax dollars we do.
I would say that Goldman and the rest of the I banks have taken plenty of taxpayer money. They have also rigged the rules so they have no consequences for failure.
That’s certainly a valid point – I have no problem at all with pushing on the companies that took bailout or similar funds. Stings come with that sort of help, so Goldman gets no sympathy from me.
The first post talking about the disparity of hedge fund managers & teachers didn’t mention brokerage firms, only hedge managers.
I also have to take issue with their entry level teachers averaging $38,000 including benefits. I don’t know what the south is like or if it fits into the stereotype. I know first hand that about 5 years ago, Arizona high schools offered my brother $42,000 not including benefits right out of college. I seriously doubt there is a single full time teacher in the state of Wisconsin that makes $38,000 including benefits when the teachers benefits package is worth probably $15K on it’s own. I’m sure a lot of east coast schools pay considerably more than here. So absent data, that number seems suspicious to me.
I am all for a wage based on education and performance. The problem I have is with the pension and benefits. Healthcare is a huge drain on school district budgets and if the district unions would pay *something* into their pension plans (who gets a pension any more???) that would result in HUGE savings! The wages are fine. Take the pension/health insurance out of the bargaining piece.
So you believe teachers shouldn’t get a pension or health insurance?
Elementary school teachers are overcompensated.
High school teachers are undercompensated.
Both are over appreciated by the public and under appreciated by students and parents.
My stepdaughter’s fifth grade teacher, who was also her third and fourth grade teacher, is worth every penny he gets paid. Alexis has absolutely thrived in her three years in his classroom.