Governor Jim Doyle yesterday, put a \"temporary\" hold on the Madison – Milwaukee train. This helps Scott Walker fulfill one of his campaign promises to stop the train. While it appears that Governor Doyle was listening to the “will of the people” and acquiescing to the next Governor wishes, despite the fact that Governor Doyle is the elected Governor for two more months. He also has a legacy he wants to protect and this has been one o fhis signature themes. Another thing that everyone will agree about him is that he knows how to play politics.
Some in the local cheddarsphere have picked up on this and think the Governor Doyle is calling Walkers bluff. Scott Walker ran around the state telling everyone that he will stop the train and use the stimulus money for roads in Wisconsin(he cant). As maryb61161 and Brew City Brawler say that the old pro Doyle is calling the amateur Walkers bluff. As bcb puts it:
My theory is that Doyle doesn’t want to give Walker that option. He wants Walker to publicly commit — will you kill the train or will you let it move forward? And if Walker says “I’ll kill it,” the federal dollars move to a clime more hospitable to rail.
By forcing Walker to make a choice Doyle either
Makes Walker flip flop on the choo choo
Makes Walker commit to killing jobs and squandering a huge economic development opportunity before he even takes office (and endear himself to the builders and the operating engineers)
Also, the administration kills an “Obama is ramming this train down our throats” narrative that will otherwise linger for the next two years. And it ensures the money can go to other rail projects vs. having Paul Ryan allocate it to road projects.
Cory at Eye on Wisconsin and many news reports are focusing on the jobs that will be lost if the train project is actually killed. Even the right- leaning, walker endorsing, free trade – loving Wisconsin State Journal, are worried that Walker will actually kill the train project. Governor Doyle saw how effective it was politically when they ended using Oconomowoc as a stop when the new Mayor and aldermen, campaigned vigorously against it. Now Governor Doyle appears to have put the ball in Scott Walkers court. As I have long advocated, I love the idea of making the republicans actually live in the world they promote.
Doing some research on this topic this morning I came across some very interesting information on the train that you dont get in the press or the right wing hate radio. Robbie Weber has an informative post about Myths about Madison-Milwaukee rail service – station and train ridership. Also as Bluecheddar points out:
One myth I want to rant about: When people say nobody will ride it, I wanna go nuts. We got $800 million for this because we won a highly competitive grant for it. According to this Nov. 1 DOT newsletter, extending the Hiawatha line to Madison will increase ridership by 330,000 people. Were these #’s pulled out of thin air?
So now the ball is in Scott Walkers court, does he truly want to kill the train or is he someone who will do or say anything to get elected? As
Rich points out:
Scott Walker promised 250,000 jobs in four years. Twelve hundred jobs per week. One hundred-seventy per day. Every day. For four years.
Certainly he MUST have a plan to make up for the 140 Milwaukee jobs that will vaporize when he cancels rail, not to mention all of the jobs directly involved with construction and those created in the service sector, etc.
get the popcorn ready.
Will of the people?
A. Doyle has decimated this state
B. Majority of WI citizens do not want nor need this train
C. Do your research in regards to real and long-term costs versus ridership — Please!
The train is something Walker is absolutely wrong on. He has no clue. I’d like to put him on a plane, so that he could see trains in action around the world – China, Europe, Latin America. His idea of economic development is to go backwards in time.
there is no way walker would take government funded airplanes….he has a mini van. Well at least rebeccafor real has a mini van and maybe she can give him a ride. As long as she doesnt talk that is.
The most unintentionally funny thing I’ve read here in quite awhile. Reminds me of the Brett Favre interview with Greta. “Don’t you worry about my legacy, let me worry about it.” Bang up job you did there, Brett.
Doyle’s legacy is already set – and it isn’t good. He lost most moderate Democrats a long time ago & the only ones defending him at this point are the blind partisans.
Locke, i am not defending Doyla as I have never been a huge supporter. I am saying that if he thinks that trains are the way to go, then he wants to make sure trains get built so that is his legacy and not scott walkers or anyone else’s.
Doyle will try to hang his legacy hat on that covenant thing, which will probably never come to pass.
And of course Walker wants to kill the train, and most people want that too. It’s just not prudent at this time, no matter how hard the federal government tries to shove it down our throat.
You know what? I’m going to be an ass and assume you’re from the southeastern portion of the state since your uneducated responses are staggering and how much you say that ‘nobody wants the train’ – because up here? It’s fifty/fifty. I will have to say, you are one of the stupidest conservatives here. Locke, NotaLib, everyone else provide good points and a good argument and actually bring up but once you get a decent argument you never reply and simply run away with your tail between your leg.
I support the restoration of useful rail passenger service in the state. A high speed train is a good idea, however it was dumb to connect from Madison and Milwaukee first, while yes they are both important cities – they should have extended the Hiawathas northward to the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay area. It would have been a higher priority and better connection to connect to Green Bay, Appleton, and Oshkosh of the Fox Cities who are all ridiculous power houses in industry and the areas combined have more people than Madison and growing jobs as well. I can understand they want to connect to Minnesota right away, but if we started building on the rail up here first, then moved onto that? By that time, people would have embraced the train more or less.
The market is larger than Madison overall, which is why if Doyle was smart he would have had that done first and made it an agreeable time to get to Milwaukee as well because it would have ultimately been less expensive and that way we could see the effects.
Thank you for the complements. I don’t see how I run away from anything.
I used to live in your area, now I love southward. I just don’t see it as rational investment. We don’t have enough people who will ride it consistently and it is too expensive. We just don’t have the population for it yet. A few Packers games or Brewers games or special events or a few business executives isn’t enough to justify it.
A ‘few’ Packer Games? A ‘few special events’ for business executives? Holy shit, you are sheltered. When did you live up here anyway? Back when Port Plaza Mall killed the city of Green Bay? We made leaps and bounds.
Do you forget about the fact that this is a huge area of industry? We have over one million people in that area combined counting the suburbs and a cluster of businesses around it.
Shopko Stores Operating Co. Schneider National. Schreiber Foods. Wisconsin Public Service. Associated Banc-Corp. Procter & Gamble – the paper mills. The Hospitals. Miller Electric. Pierce Manufacturing. This is just the beginning and I didn’t even list them all off yet – we have a lot of things up here and nobody in power has bothered to tap into it yet. Which is why we’re easily the most discontent people in the state. We have a thriving business but each time someone from the southern portion of the state takes power, they just forget we exist conveniently.
Once again, it won’t be that expensive with how that prices of gas are going up – $2.94 a gallon. I’d gladly use the train if it meant I didn’t have to concentrate on the people on the road going absolutely batshit insane.
Well I was just going by what you said about Packers games and such. I don’t deny there are important industries in NE Wisconsin. You name some great businesses, but how many of those paper mill employees and others need to travel by train to Milwaukee or Madison regularly?
Sorry T., don’t mean to pick but that’s pretty funny. I’m not sure, I just have a sort of sneaking suspicion Schneider might not really be a big fan of trains. 🙂
It’s a huge AREA. Problem is, trains are a fixed route with fixed stops. If everyone has to drive to get to the train, for short or many intermediate length destinations, it’s more convenient to just drive the whole way. Add the flexibility on the destination side and it becomes less feasible.
I do agree that gas prices are the wild card. At some point, that can flip the numbers upside down. But then of course, increased fuel economy in cars and ultimately electric sort of negate that again. While I think Obama’s increasing of the EPA mileage requirements is a little too fast, it’s shameful that they were largely stagnant during Bush’s Presidency. I’m a big believer in very gradual, but steady increases there. We have brilliant engineers capable of improving fuel efficiency but until recently, we (the auto-buying consumers) weren’t tasking them to do so.
Personally, I always saw it along the lines that they would have more room on the highways without it being as concentrated because a ton of people would be be diverted on the train and not so much in their way. I’m trying to think outside of the box if you understand. Plus, you never know of Schindler in time could eventually see the use of a train and send it that way as well. 😀
I can understand about the fixed areas and the fixed stops – however people who live in the metropolitan areas. Those who live out towards the outskirts in say, like Freedom could easily drive to say Green Bay or Appleton, and if they want to go to a major city or something in a hurry if they have to like say Milwaukee? They could simply go to the nearest station and get there.
While I think it was foolish to do this while we have a deficit, it is something important that we should look into as an alternate way of transportation.
I don’t agree with that. Admittedly, I’m not exactly plugged into the business community (which probably sounds strange since I’m a small business owner) but I really don’t know anybody who is really a proponent for rail. I actually have more positive things to say about Fox Valley Transit than anyone else I know. I think providing public transit for those who really need it is great – but I find the empty buses I see running around…well just offensive. The same thing could be accomplished with vans/minivans or cars at a fraction of the cost. For me, that’s what it always comes down to – public transit is great – but what is the per-rider cost and how does it compare with other options. Where the per rider costs of train are favorable, I’ll support it wholeheartedly.
Anyway, the people I know around here aren’t big fans of public transit in general, let alone trains. This area is all about the urban sprawl – we choose to live in the area, but spread out. That’s why places like Greenville and Darboy and Sherwood and Howard/Suamico are the fastest growing areas. We have almost everything Madison or Milwaukee have and when we want something more, we drive. I live in Freedom – Appleton & Green Bay are each about 15 minutes away, my wife’s daily commute to Appleton is about 10 minutes, none of it on Hwy 41 which probably adds years to her life, both in terms of stress, and quite possibly, literally. I’m surrounded by farms, trees and critters (though that’s both good and bad). I’d be making a lot more money in Madison or Milwaukee with a lot less effort, but I wouldn’t trade what I have for the world.
Finally, funny story about the Fox Valley, politics & trains. Either 2 or 4 years ago, Steve Kagan spoke & took questions with employees at my wife’s employer. Somebody asked about a train – his answer was that’s why there’s space in between the northbound & southbound lanes of 41 between Appleton & Green Bay. A good portion of the room literally laughed out loud at him. Guess the giant columns holding up the overpasses aren’t really necessary. And the fact that there’s not remotely enough space in many places.
It’s really a pretty cool thing their company does – come election time, they invite all of the politicians to come in (usually during the lunch hour). I’ve come in to visit for them as well, and they’re usually pretty well attended. It’s a great opportunity to see the candidates first hand and ask questions. This year, Kagan chose not to come. Ribble did. Johnson did. Feingold didn’t. Walker did. Barrett didn’t. Hmmm…seems like pattern there. Those that showed up & faced unscripted questions were successful at the polls. Those that didn’t, weren’t.
I got to listen to Herb Kohl years ago and he was very good. Whatever has happened to that guy (apathy or simply age), it’s really a shame because he’s a shell of what he used to be and needs to step down.
I think it’s important to note that Freedom for example? Is a little cut off and it’s own little system, a beautiful place though. It’s extremely self sufficient. I love going out there to eat and look at the various businesses every so often, partially because I’m taking notes on how to run my own eventually by seeing what works and what doesn’t. (I actually was down there today hilariously enough.)
I believe in order to acknowledge a business and how it works, I have to see it both from a bigger perspective and a smaller perspective. I think it all depends on the location and the place, certain places might benefit while others may simply dry up. ( Look at poor Seymour. I rarely see anything new there and it depresses me so. )
I think there’s a need for it but they have to think clearly on where to place the high speed rail and not have it “I’m going to put it in between the north and southbound lanes.” or something like that – in theory that seems like an awesome idea but good lord can you imagine the accidents? Oh Kagen – I loved him a lot for him helping with us and a lot of other things in our district. But sometimes he could have really been a huge idiot. Come on, we can’t stick a train right there, everyone knows that. 🙂
Someday in the future when I have aged well – I might get into politics, due to understanding accounting, business, and other subjects. As I said, I don’t have exactly anything against Ribble – if he can prove to be a good representative and not just focus on businesses, but other issues like helping those in need, focus on minorities who don’t have the same opportunities, and so on? I’ll be happy. I’m not irrational and I do give people a chance.
Part of me wants to run for a Republican or Democrat but I think I’d probably be kicked out almost immediately for saying that we shouldn’t be getting into cases about what others do in their bedrooms, freedom of religion or lack there of, be pro-guns, pro-farmers – particularly less of the middle man and more money to the men and women who work hard in this state, crazy with conserving the natural areas around here, keeping the environment beautiful and not polluted, legalizing hemp, and be focusing more on businesses to do what businesses ideally should be doing – helping the people and providing resources to do so and keeping a competitive but stable working environment. Having businesses and churches accountable for their actions if they hide something, like abuse or harassment in the work place that they should justifiably punished for it so it can lead to some responsibility. Also, kicking the drug industry, the insurance industry, banking sector, and Wall Street to be more responsible. Plus, responsible spending which having to grow up all my life near the lower income class? Has left me to become extremely frugal and responsible with my money.
Overall, a balance between the private and the public sector, more local government but not small for the sake of being small but manageable and workable – I do think while we are a part of the 8th District, we are still part of Wisconsin, and ultimately a part of the United States.
Think along the lines of a Progressive Republican back in our history books.
And that’s why I wouldn’t make it ever. 😀
rumor has it that the Senate needs some accountants…
I’d be willing to give it a shot someday – I even have some ideas how to possibly get some attention too. However, right now I need to stabilize my life, but otherwise I’d be all willing to go either as a senate or representative. 😀
That would be perfectly fitting. A promise that he had no ability to actually keep.