Let the Recount Begin

Wispolitics has the story:

The Government Accountability Board says Supreme Court candidate JoAnne Kloppenburg (left) has requested a statewide recount.

JoAnne kloppenburg decided that democracy should win out, while david prosser will do everything in his power to make sure that a recount never takes place. It will be an interesting next few months in WI.

By the way before complaining about the costs of the recount, I hope the right wing cheddarsphere takes time to read this from Jud @ Uppity Wisconsin.

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67 thoughts on “Let the Recount Begin

  1. prosser will do everything in his power to make sure that a recount never takes place

    Bluff and bluster. They were trying to bully her out of it and, ironically, probably pissed her off enough to do it.

      1. Oh I can see downsides to it, particularly a risk of angering recall voters. But that’s not her problem. I’m just saying the Prosser Posse shot themselves in the foot with nasty rhetoric and empty threats. They’re ain’t no way they can stop this.

        1. The post at Uppity Wisconsin noted in Zach’s post, “WHEN BUSH LOST WI BY SIMILAR MARGIN TO JKLO’S LOSS WALKER & REST OF GOP SUPPORTED RECOUNT”, is worth setting out in full:

          Posted Tue, 04/19/2011 – 9:26am | by Jud Lounsbury

          “In 2000, George W. Bush lost Wisconsin to Al Gore by about a 6K vote margin– a similar margin that we’re talking about in the 2010 Kloppenburg v Prosser race. Ultimately, the Bush campaign opted out of challenging Wisconsin, because it wouldn’t have made a difference if they lost Florida. However, its important to note that Wisconsin Republicans were unanimously in support of a recall in Wisconsin:

          “Yes, I do.” -Tommy Thompson, 11/17/2000 when asked if Bush should request a recount.

          “With or without voter fraud, there’s a slim enough margin that a recount could result in a change in the final margin.” -Scott Walker, 11/12/2000

          “This is the narrowest election in state history, and there’s a chance that mistakes were made.” -Tony Jewell, 11/14/2000 Gov. Tommy Thompson Spokesman

          “I hope we seriously consider a recount in Wisconsin, even if it doesn’t change the outcome.” -Speaker of the Assembly, Scott Jensen, 11/21/2000

          “We believe very seriously that the integrity of our election process is at stake.” – Wisconsin GOP Chair, Richard Graber” 11/10/2000

          Now, ten years later, despite an almost identical margin as Bush v Gore, the Wisconsin Republicans call a recount in Kloppenburg’s case “frivolous” and a “waste.”

          How do you say “hypocrite” in Fitzwalkerstanian?”

          Lounsbury has it exactly right. How DO you say “hypocrite” in Fitzwalkerstanian?

  2. Speaking of Wisconsin recounts…

    Did anyone realize Mitt Romney’s father is Mexican? His parents were born Mexican but FLED to America during the Mexican revolution. For some reason I’m thinking FLED doesn’t include legally fleeing. Did they cross the border like so many Mexicans do until this day? No one knows unless we see the birth records right? Is this why the GOP is all of a sudden backing off the birther nonsense? How many GOP hopefuls are not really American?

    So if Obama’s father was born Kenyan, therefore, Obama is Kenyan.

    So if Romney’s father was born Mexican, therefore, Mitt Romney is Mexican right?

    1. George Romney (Mitt’s dad) may have been born in Mexico, but both his parents were Americans who happened to be living in a Mormon colony in Mexico.

      It’s not really an apples and apples comparison to compare Romney’s parents to Obama’s.

  3. Agreed no downside. Keep dragging this defeat out for you guys. Keep it in the news. Keep it as a constant reminder of a state rejecting your ways. Keep spending money, resources and man hours fighting this fight. And please keep this lose that liberals should have won given the fact you had all the momentum and other key races on the ballot in liberal counties going on. I hope you drag this out for months. Oh and keep spending more tax payer money on unnesseary recounts so Governor Walker can cut more out of the budget. Thank you Mrs. Kloppenburg for making the case and starting the media campaign for the need to cleanup Wisconsin’s elections. Photo ID! This whole thing is really going to help us out. Man you guys didn’t even think this one through did you?

    1. Pete, how exactly would Voter ID address the issues that surfaced as a result of the Waukesha fiasco?

      I’d love to hear your logic on that.

      1. It brings up the issue of fair and honest elections. Zach because right now you register to vote. Claim to be who you say you are and then cast a ballot. You are foolish to think there are not a significant amount of ballots that were cast in the name of other people. You need an ID to do almost anything in this world. It is not an unreasonable request especially if they are free. Even Justice Stevens (liberal) ruled that it was not an unreasonable request and worth it. You know deep down that voter fraud generally helps democrats. That’s why you are against it.

        Internet Machines Sven?

        Whats is so weird about what happened in Waukesha? The county clerk didn’t report the totals from Brookfield to the associated press. Usually when you want to save an attachment I’m guessing before you send it that you have to hit save on that attachment file. Otherwise it won’t include what you entered since the last time you saved it. OMG Fraud right. Except one thing. Everything else, the numbers included, matches up.

        1. actually We know deep down that voter fraud is virtually non-existent what we have to guard against is election fraud. Since when are Id’s free? next time i renew my license it will be free?

          yes what is so weird about an clerk, who used to work for the “winning” candidate, who has been in trouble for messing with the electoral process before in her life, having votes on her personal computer with no oversight finding 14000 votes 2 days after one of the biggest elections in our states history….nothing weird there at all. It happens daily.

          1. Oh wow somebody did his research on here. I bet the day it was announced you went of the computer and tried to find everything you could about her just wanting to believe in your head that Kloppenburg couldn’t possibly have lost. So what exactly isn’t matching up in Waukesha county? Yes votes on her personal computer. Because we all know there is an add on feature with every computer that allows you to attach physical ballots to it. You dont keep votes on the computer in Wisconsin. They are physical ballots. The ones from brookfield arent counted by the county clerk but the city clerk. those totals are then sent to the county clerk. The county clerk adds up all the totals from what the cities and towns submitted by their respective clerks. The vote totals that she sent to the associated press she put on an exel documnet on her own computer. Im assuming with every city or town she entered the totals for she hit save and then entered the next one. The entered Brookfield totals were not saved. You then email or submit the final totals to the associated press. But the attachment file is not going to be accurate if you didnt hit save with the last city you entered. Its not going to show those totals. It does happen daily Jeff. I personally lost something on the computer today because I didn’t hit save.

            And yes into the legislation there will probably be a requirment for free id. That does not mean you will get a free drivers license. duh. It means you would get a free id card from the state(not a drivers license but only an id). But that’s too much to ask for right? But if you already decided to yourself that you want a drivers license you can use that as a form of id. Anymore brain busters?

            1. You sound a little … upset.

              I won’t even go into the whole issue of working with Microsoft Access and Microsoft Excel – Microsoft Access automatically saves even in the case of hard shut down. Microsoft Excel automatically asks you to save if you’re closing it. I won’t even go into the issue that the most voter irregularities have come from Waukesha County in particular of all the counties in Wisconsin. The only way for it not to save is by going through three programs in a roundabout way to cause the programs to glitch beyond belief.

              I have no pity for Kathy Nickolaus whatsoever with her history of incompetence and corruption that she chose to use legislative immunity for. Missing an entire city is rare, so rare that in the span of the last ten years – the three cases it happened was in Waukesha County under her.

              The point is, as much as you cry about it – it’s being done for the entire state. Who knows, it might work in your favor.

              1. We have no idea what’s happening in Access, Excel, and Nickolaus’s mystery macros. In her press conference, she blamed subordinates altering Excel templates. She also blamed herself for not saving something. She has a long track record of error and keeping her IT practices to herself. That’s a big red flag in the IT business and it should be a big red flag for everyone concerned with trustworthy voting systems. No, I don’t think there was a conspiracy between Brookfield and the County, but I’d love to see a deep forensic examination of Nickolaus’s practices.

            2. Pete, I’m still waiting for you to explain how Voter ID would have prevented the situation in Waukesha County, and I’m also waiting for your proof of “significant” vote fraud.

              1. Did I say it would have prevented the situation in Waukesha county? No. But Zach the problems that were faced in Waukesha County aren’t the only problems that our elections face. In your ideal world it would be. But thats not the case. You have failed to address my logic from this about my previous posts. By your logic you are basically claiming that no one in this state or from other states can or does come here to vote in another persons name. If you use the brain God gave you you could understand that the chances are extremely high or this happeneing if not already proven. Besides asking for someone to show a free id issued by the state is NOT and unreasonable request. Wouldn’t you feel better knowing that? Oh but wait you want to believe that it will suppress the vote specifically the elderly. If they can get their butt to the polling place they can get their butt a free id. And these are just the facts. I mean Justice Stevens even agreed with this. Come on

                T- it automatically saves probably every couple minutes or everytime you shut it down. I know a couple instances where i have sent an email with and attachment and the document that I was going to send is still open. When you attach it it attachs the one that was most recently saved. But if you still have the program open and that last time it automatically saved was 5 minutes ago before you entered more data it probably isnt going to send the file with the additional data but rather the data that was contained in it the last time you saved.

                And please as a Wisconsin conservatice I am not at all upset. These past couple of months have been great. Doesnt sound like I’m the one crying. Someone who gets everything they want doesnt cry and that is really what it has been like these past couple of months for conservatives. Heaven. Also I’m not nomitating her for employee of the month or something.

                1. Pete’s exact words:

                  “You are foolish to think there are not a significant amount of ballots that were cast in the name of other people.”

                  Where’s your proof? Where’s your evidence? You can ramble on and on, but I’m still waiting for your proof of the “significant amount of ballots that were cast in the name of other people.” The fact is, the issue of vote fraud in Wisconsin has been investigated to death and no evidence has been produced that proves vote fraud is widespread or significant.

                  Absent some offer of proof on your part, I’m going to go ahead and call “bullshit” on your claim about “significant amount of ballots that were cast in the name of other people.”

                  1. Its kind of hard to offially prove beyond a reasonable doubt Zach. But like i said it you use your brain you know its going on. Like I asked you think no one in this state is or ever has voted in the name of someone else? Its so easy to do. You are so naive to think otherwise. Show me evidence that it supressed turnout? Man turn on your street smart.

                    1. Pete, I love how you think you can just go around making accusations of “significant” vote fraud without any proof and think that folks are just going to take you at your word, absent even one iota of proof.

                      I’m sure the fact that our former Republican-appointed U.S. Attorney Steve Biskupic investigated the issue of vote fraud and found no proof of widespread or coordinated vote fraud isn’t enough for you to admit that maybe….just maybe vote fraud isn’t the epidemic you’re making it out to be. Then again, surely you know more about vote fraud here in Wisconsin than a U.S. Attorney, because what do those guys know about investigating that kind of thing? It’s not like they know how to investigate possible criminal activity!

                      You say I should turn on my street smarts, but I say you should start thinking beyond the same tired Republican talking points. If vote fraud were as rampant and significant as you say it is, it certainly wouldn’t be that hard to get to the bottom of it.

                    2. And actually our esteemed state Attorney General J B van Hollen did an extensive investigation of the 2008 election cycle and didn’t find anything amiss…voter id is a solution looking for a problem.

                      And free ids aren’t free…I have seen estimates for the cost to the state alone of $1 to $4 million per year…not counting the cost of municipalities to track them. We’re too broke to run a recount for a perceived tainted election but not too broke to run a voter id scam.

                    3. And free ids aren’t free…I have seen estimates for the cost to the state alone of $1 to $4 million per year…not counting the cost of municipalities to track them.

                      Yeah and elections themselves cost money too, but no one is using that as an excuse. I support Kloppernburg’s right for a recount – we’ve set the bar for taxpayer paid at .5%, which seems pretty reasonable, and since she’s within that, she doesn’t have to pay. It’s in that exact same vein that the price to provide free photo IDs to add a little more security to the voting process is not unreasonable or some fringe, out there position. I haven’t seen numbers I trust, but we should be talking about a relatively small minority of voters – I’d guess 80 or 90 percent already have an appropriate ID for one of the thousand other things where it’s required or helpful. Maybe it’s a little more than that, I don’t know.

                      I take issue with a couple of things though. A yearly cost of $1-4 million? I don’t buy that. Clearly it would have a higher initial cost. Maybe you’re amortizing that over some period of years to get that yearly figure. Because after startup, there’s just no way it should be nearly that expensive. How many new voters – who do not already have a photo ID – will be added each year? I’d also argue that there should be an income ceiling on the free IDs. Not sure what it is – maybe use the median income or maybe higher just to avoid controversy. But if you’re pulling in 40 or 50 grand, a $30 photo ID is not remotely an excessive burden.

                      Using the last census, Wisconsin added a little over 30,000 people a year. Figure half of that would actually be voters. Maybe 1 out of 4 of those wouldn’t have a photo ID otherwise. So under 4000. Nope, no way that should cost that much.

                      By the way – what are you talking about when you say the “cost of municipalities to track them?”

            3. Pete here is a brain buster for you….

              http://badgerherald.com/news/2011/04/17/dems_find_discrepanc.php

              Adding to the confusion, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin cried foul last Thursday when apparent inconsistencies in Waukesha for the 2006 Attorney General election between Attorney General J. B. Van Hollen and Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk turned up.

              The 2006 figures for Waukesha County show 174,047 votes were cast for the candidates in that race. However, according to the same figures, only 156,804 votes were cast in the whole election.

          1. Are you guys on drugs? “I can’t remember the last time I had to show my id” Do you guys not have a life? Yes we should make elections as simple as possible at the expense of fair and honest elections. Whatever. Im living in reality. You need one to buy alcohol at freaking Pick N Save. You need one to fly. To withdrawl and deposit money from a bank account. To write a check. Not to mention the various other forms of id we use in our everyday lives. It’s sad you guys know the voter fraud benefits you so you don’t care.

            Paranoid? Sounds like you guys are paranoid about Waukesha County. Sven no one does or ever has cast a ballot in someone elses name? Hmm I suppose you have to prove that just as much as I have to prove my case. In the end lets play it safe and require a simple free photo id.

            1. Yes i need one to fly but i fly very rarely. I can not remember the last time i needed to pull out my ID to buy alcohol or at my local bank. I also write checks often and no one asks me for my id then either.

            2. Pete, you’ve over looked a minor issue with showing id…it’s very subtle so I can understand why you missed it!

              I don’t have a right to buy liquor, drive a car, buy tobacco, cash a check, have a bank account, etc.

              I have the right to vote.

        2. There was no allegation of vote fraud in Waukesha County; the issue there was the incompetence (and I’d argue negligence) of the Republican County Clerk. The fact that the ballots were improperly counted by the Clerk has nothing to do with Voter ID, and it’s beyond a stretch for you to connect the two.

          I’ve heard a lot of conservatives wail about vote fraud, especially here in SE Wisconsin, but I’m still waiting for proof that a “significant amount of ballots that were cast in the name of other people.” You making the assertion doesn’t make it fact, so give me some proof to back up your claims.

    2. Honestly, I think a recount should have been done from the start even when she ‘won’. I just love how the tune automatically changed for the right when suddenly votes came from Waukesha County.

      By the way, by creating a Voter ID law, you realize you have to make it possible for ALL citizens to get it, right? Because otherwise, it will go along the lines of Jim Crow Laws and poll tax. Indiana has the harshest Voter ID laws, but in order to pass it the government must fund the said ID for free to give to the people so they can vote. Otherwise it will have to be repealed completely as unconstitutional. This means, a lot of precious tax dollars are being spent away on giving Voter IDs to the people in the State of Indiana.

      1. Yes but a recount could easily overturn 200 votes. 7000 and you are just wasting time and money. So your point is not good and doesn’t make much sense. Sorry

        1. This is under the assumption that Waukesha County is the only one in on it.

          I personally think there’s something wrong with Fond du Lac County and Milwaukee County. If there was voter fraud or electoral fraud, that should be checked out regardless of side.

        2. If you think it’s a waste of money, contact your legislative representative and change the recount law. Until then, suck it up and fly right.

      2. Exactly. If the state is going to pass such a law and even have a hope of passing constitutional muster, then it MUST have a mechanism which allows for the eligible voter to obtain an ID FREE OF CHARGE. Otherwise it’s a poll tax. And that takes us next to WHO PAYS FOR IT. That would be the state. So. Next person to talk to our lying governor will want to pose the question, Mr. Prevaricator, have you allocated monies in the budget to implement your Voter ID law? Five will get you ten that he had no intention doing such a thing. And THAT doesn’t even answer the question of what is going to be required of the voter to prove his/her eligibility. That answer may be out there, but I can’t seem to find it.

    3. I don’t expect the recount to change the results…but I do think there needs to be a recount to clear the air on how election results were handled. Justice Prosser should welcome the recount to affirm his victory and prove that Wisconsin elections work!

  4. “there’s absolutely no downside to Kloppenburg requesting a recall.”

    Spoken like a true government employee who does not give a damn about how much taxpayer money is wasted.

    1. “who does not give a damn about how much taxpayer money is wasted”

      At least it’ll go to hardworking public employees and not some dingdong taxbreak scheme or homebuilder’s snot-nosed nephew. Bring on the recall stimulus, I says.

    2. It’s clear to see Fred’s not a believer in ensuring fair, honest, election results, since he’s made it clear he’s not supportive of this recall effort.

      However, if the shoe were on the other foot and Prosser had come out behind, no doubt Fred would be cheering on a Prosser-requested recall, cost be damned!

      Seriously Fred, come back when you’ve got better material, because the attacks on me and the fact that I’m a public employee are weak sauce.

    3. This citizen gives a damn that what trust we have in our electoral system is assured.

      And, as always, would you still be asking that if your guy needed the recount?

    4. If it clears the air about the way the original results were handled, it’s money well spent. Democracy gets messy and it’s expensive.

    5. Freddie, that pesky law about allowing a recount if it is within 0.5 percent? What would you like to change the number to, and why?

    1. Jeff should we recount the totals from last November there could have been a mistake. A .0000000000000000001% chance of a mistake. The point I’m making is it is about odds. The results are not going to be overturned unless there is fraud. This is a waste of time and money. The gap here is too wide.

      Sven good idea a new government jobs program. Cash for votes counted. The more recounts you perform the more money put into the economy and your pocket.

  5. By the way before complaining about the costs of the recount, I hope the right wing cheddarsphere takes time to read this from Jud @ Uppity Wisconsin.

    It’s partisan hackery, same as always. Your side does exactly the same thing. When the other guys win, you press for a recount. When your side wins, you talk about what a waste of taxpayers money it will be. It’s hilarious in that you guys are either so stupid you don’t see your own hypocrisy or simply don’t care & just make whatever argument fits your side.

    Speaking of hypocrisy…this election has been one of the most entertaining ever in so far as hearing so many people who droned on & on about how there’s no election fraud going on, now trying to argue about election fraud in order to make a case that Kloppenburg really won. Just keep spinning in circles guys, it’s really fun to watch.

    1. I don’t think she won honestly, due to Prosser going HELL YEAH SECOND AMENDMENT up in the Northwoods. Heck, I’ve been one person to say even if she won – she definitely needed to do a recount from the start since it was that close. Plus, Fond du Lac County is one that confuses me – if that was really the case why was Randy Hopper one of the first senators to be recalled? If they came somewhere from Cowles District – all right, no problem. No big deal.

      Then again, I’m in the personal belief that there is also electoral fraud too going on and it has been my thought for years – I just thought it would be bigger states and not here in Wisconsin.

    2. @ Locke

      The post at Uppity Wisconsin noted in Zach’s post, “WHEN BUSH LOST WI BY SIMILAR MARGIN TO JKLO’S LOSS WALKER & REST OF GOP SUPPORTED RECOUNT”, speaks for itself, Locke:

      Posted Tue, 04/19/2011 – 9:26am | by Jud Lounsbury

      “In 2000, George W. Bush lost Wisconsin to Al Gore by about a 6K vote margin– a similar margin that we’re talking about in the 2010 Kloppenburg v Prosser race. Ultimately, the Bush campaign opted out of challenging Wisconsin, because it wouldn’t have made a difference if they lost Florida. However, its important to note that Wisconsin Republicans were unanimously in support of a recall in Wisconsin:

      “Yes, I do.” -Tommy Thompson, 11/17/2000 when asked if Bush should request a recount.

      “With or without voter fraud, there’s a slim enough margin that a recount could result in a change in the final margin.” -Scott Walker, 11/12/2000

      “This is the narrowest election in state history, and there’s a chance that mistakes were made.” -Tony Jewell, 11/14/2000 Gov. Tommy Thompson Spokesman

      “I hope we seriously consider a recount in Wisconsin, even if it doesn’t change the outcome.” -Speaker of the Assembly, Scott Jensen, 11/21/2000

      “We believe very seriously that the integrity of our election process is at stake.” – Wisconsin GOP Chair, Richard Graber” 11/10/2000

      Now, ten years later, despite an almost identical margin as Bush v Gore, the Wisconsin Republicans call a recount in Kloppenburg’s case “frivolous” and a “waste.”

      How do you say “hypocrite” in Fitzwalkerstanian?”

      Lounsbury has it exactly right. How DO you say “hypocrite” in Fitzwalkerstanian, Locke?

      1. Zuma – Read my post. No need to re-post the all of the quotes – I can read. I don’t dispute the Republicans do it – that was the point which seems to have sailed completely over your head.

        1. @ Locke

          You wrote, “I can read. I don’t dispute the Republicans do it – that was the point which seems to have sailed completely over your head.”

          And yet, all you seemed to want to do was lambast Democratic/liberal/progressive hypocrisy when the subject, at present, is clear and convincing Republican hypocrisy on the issue.

          Your post is still a piece of partisan BS, Locke and your attempt at condescension is absolutely misplaced.

          Given the nature and partisan tone of your comment, the repost was entirely understandable, not to mention justified, and I stand by the need to repost it, with a few changes, for your benefit.

          That said, I see Republicans pull this kind of crap a lot more than I do Democrats.

          In any event, whatever may have happened in the past in your mind, maybe you should hold your fire on the subject of hypocrisy until the Democrats engage in it again, and then we can have a conversation about it. In the meantime, since we apparently both agree that the Republicans are the ones engaging in hypocrisy, let’s just leave it at that for the time being, huh?

          1. Reading comprehension fail.

            It’s partisan hackery, same as always. Your side does exactly the same thing. When the other guys win, you press for a recount. When your side wins, you talk about what a waste of taxpayers money it will be.

            Notice, I never said the Republicans don’t do it – in fact, I implicitly granted that they do. That’s what “does exactly the same thing ” means. Both parties do this, as I said:

            When the other guys win, you press for a recount. When your side wins, you talk about what a waste of taxpayers money it will be.

            R or D, doesn’t matter. Lather, rinse repeat.

            But thanks for playing.

            1. @ Locke

              Here’s what I wrote:

              “You wrote, ‘I can read. I don’t dispute the Republicans do it – that was the point which seems to have sailed completely over your head.’

              And yet, all you seemed to want to do was lambast Democratic/liberal/progressive hypocrisy when the subject, at present, is clear and convincing Republican hypocrisy on the issue.

              Your post is still a piece of partisan BS, Locke and your attempt at condescension is absolutely misplaced.

              Given the nature and partisan tone of your comment, the repost was entirely understandable, not to mention justified, and I stand by the need to repost it, with a few changes, for your benefit.

              That said, I see Republicans pull this kind of crap a lot more than I do Democrats.

              In any event, whatever may have happened in the past in your mind, maybe you should hold your fire on the subject of hypocrisy until the Democrats engage in it again, and then we can have a conversation about it. In the meantime, since we apparently both agree that the Republicans are the ones engaging in hypocrisy, let’s just leave it at that for the time being, huh?”

              One of us has a reading comprehension problem, Locke. It isn’t me. You’re right up there with Notalib. Congratulations.

              But thanks for playing. . .

    3. You wont find anywhere where i said it was too costly to do a recount no matter who won. I am all for recounts anytime it gets close and this is close. lets make sure the person with the most votes is the person who serves.

      1. I’d like to see the law where the loser can request a recount in any county but they have to pay. If the recount changes the outcome the fees become the responsibility for the opponent. What a fun chess match that could be to watch.

  6. Locke,

    I just put down the numbers that I have seen from different sources. They aren’t necessarily comparable since some are for the state only and some for all voting jurisdictions. I believe I saw a $2.2 million start up figure at some point.

    Yeah, I know elections are expensive and after having run this past winter I would suggest that we move these minor odd year elections to one of the even year elections. If it hadn’t been for the animosity over the shenanigans in Madison and the need to fill the Milwaukee County Exec and two County Supers, there would have little or now interest in this election and it would have cost nearly as much as a major municipal/county election cycle.

    But!!! I will hold that all IDs used for voting verification have to be free for everyone or we have an unconstitutional poll tax! Drivers licenses, passports, etc that cost money to obtain aren’t valid. So the state hands out IDs that are ONLY valid for voting.

    And do IDs need your current address or simply your name and photo? For people like students who move several times a year, do they need to get new ID every time?

    And how many new govt employees do we need to track/issue these at the state level and check them at the polling place?

    1. But!!! I will hold that all IDs used for voting verification have to be free for everyone or we have an unconstitutional poll tax! Drivers licenses, passports, etc that cost money to obtain aren’t valid.

      Why on earth wouldn’t passports or drivers’ licenses (or DMV issued ID’s) be valid?

    1. From the op-ed:

      The Department of Transportation predicted an estimated $2.7 million loss in revenue and increased staff cost of $61,680

      Um…lost revenue? I don’t mean to be argumentative or split hairs, but I don’t get it. Wouldn’t…shouldn’t…the funding to pay for it be authorized by the law itself? Maybe that’s just viewing things from a buisness/private The DOT wouldn’t lose revenues over it, the cost of the IDs should be paid for by the law. Though to be honest – DOT can…well STFU…anyway. They’ve been on the gravy train for too long.

      Once again, we have an unfunded state mandate being proposed upon local government – not to mention the Herculean additional and complex administrative costs that will be assigned to our communities’ dedicated and conscientious poll workers.

      Again, no explanation of this. It cost money to look at the picture and make sure it matches up with the person giving you their name & address. How does this cost the local government money exactly? That is the solution Photo ID solves – it is simply a check to make sure the person is who they say they are. We clearly lack the dedication and commitment to make the top to bottom, modernization of the voting process that we should. Given that, bolting an Photo ID check onto the existing process is a manageable alternative.

  7. “Why on earth wouldn’t passports or drivers’ licenses (or DMV issued ID’s) be valid?”

    Because if they cost money to obtain they are the equivalent of a poll tax.

    1. Because if they cost money to obtain they are the equivalent of a poll tax.

      I just don’t believe that follows. I’d compare it to the right to a court appointed attorney if you can’t afford one. That doesn’t mean taxpayers have to pay for everyone’s legal fees.

      A valid photo ID is required. If you already have one, you can use it – that doesn’t make it invalid or mean that the fee to get that ID is a poll tax. The fee was to get your drivers license – the fact that the photo can be used as a photo ID for verification during voting doesn’t mean that the fee applies to, or is required for voting. I need to drive to my polling place – I’m required to pay auto insurance. Therefore, that makes my auto insurance a poll tax then, right?

      As an aside, a little historical context sort of makes referring to this as a poll tax…well…almost laughable. The poll taxes that were ruled illegal also had exemptions for people whose father or grandfather voted in prior elections, were tied to blatantly rigged literacy tests and clear intimidation. It’s almost like current NFL players making millions comparing themselves to slaves.

      1. Locke, individuals are not required to have a state-issued ID if they choose not to have one, just like individuals are not required to present police with IDs.

        However, by requiring individuals to have a state-issued ID in order to vote, you’re requiring them to pay a fee in order to be able exercise their Constitutionally-protected right to vote.

        1. Seriously, what is so hard to get about this? Of course I know people aren’t required to have them. But in this state, a large majority of people do. I think I know exactly one adult who does not have one. I get that that might not be typical, and especially for Madison/Milwaukee it’s not nearly so skewed. But the fact remains – for a large majority of Wisconsin voters, they already have a photo ID so nothing is required. For those that don’t, we pay for their ID if they need it.

          Out of curiosity – has anyone looked at the Wisconsin Voter Registration Application recently? There’s a field there for Wisconsin Driver License or ID Number. It even says, “DL # required if issued”.

          Also worth noting – of the documents listed as constituting proof of residence for voter registration, almost all of them require a fee or payment of some sort. Property tax bill/receipt, university ID, utility bill, or WI Drivers license. How about a paycheck? Doesn’t that require some have a job to register to vote?

          1. I can think of one person right off the top of my head that doesn’t have any current valid photo ID. My 88 year old mother in law who stopped driving 5 years ago…she no longer as a current DL, doesn’t have a military ID, doesn’t have a student ID, doesn’t have a passport…and is currently in a nursing home. It would require hiring a handicab to get her to a DMV to get valid ID which under the current bill she would still need to cast her absentee ballot.

  8. “It cost money to look at the picture and make sure it matches up with the person giving you their name & address. How does this cost the local government money exactly?”

    And how are you gonna know the poll worker actually looked at it, that it actually matched the presenter, etc…unless you track it somehow…just more opportunity for voter fraud if you ask me!

    1. And how are you gonna know the poll worker actually looked at it, that it actually matched the presenter, etc…unless you track it somehow…just more opportunity for voter fraud if you ask me!

      Seriously? It sounds a little like you’re just dreaming up objections to support your conclusion rather than the other way around on this Ed. Why do you think we need to track this? We don’t track everything. It’s really no different than asking a voter for their address for verification – that detail doesn’t get tracked. I have no problem trusting the election workers on this. The one – and perhaps only – point I agreed with your link on, is that overwhelmingly we have dedicated and conscientious poll workers. Adding this requires no more trust than we already are placing on the workers. If you think they can’t be trusted to look at a picture, then they cannot be trusted to do the address verification they are currently doing.

      Voter comes up to worker:
      Worker: Name?
      Voter: Locke.
      Worker: Address?
      Voter: 1234 Maple St.
      Worker: ID?
      Voter: Here it is.

      Picture matches, voter gets checked off & handed their number.

      In fairness, I should add that I haven’t read the bill. It’s entirely possible (hell maybe even likely) that the legislators have or will muck it up or otherwise do poor job crafting the law. Whether “led” by Republicans or Democrats, that seems to be the Wisconsin way.

      1. Not making excuses…just showing how ridiculous this all is and how it can be just as easily negated. The damn bill is 140+ pages long? To mandate voter id? really?

  9. If Voter ID proponents are truly interested in election integrity, and not voter suppression, then let’s see them propose a truly comprehensive Voter ID law.

    Free photo ID’s accompanied by a massive state funded campaign, over a considerable length of time, to inform every voter in Wisconsin of the changes to come. Television commercials, full page ads in every newspaper in Wisconsin, follow-up op-eds from GAB officials, a web presence, multiple 1-800 hotlines for questions, the whole nine yards.

    Then let’s expand the number of places voters can obtain their new ID: DMV stations, county human service departments, tribal administration offices, college campus admission offices, etc.

    This is Wisconsin. We want people to vote here, right? We want to ensure the integrity of our elections, and we want the maximum possible participation, right?

  10. You know in the voter I’d bill college IDE are not acceptable, plus if a freshman moves to a different dorm sophomore year they have to get a new I’d. Seems like they don’t want college kids to vote, but that can’t be it.

  11. I support voter ID. I think one’s citizenship should be on the driver’s license OR the state ID. I am okay with means testing for free driver’s license and state ID if citizenship can be proven. Others pay.

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